Just be sure to tell me when Karl Marx reappears so I can shut him up.
Does Argentina recognize you as a sovereign?
No, and no.
Do you believe you can defeat the state if you keep paying taxes to it?
Without a doubt. But when you’re not paying taxes, and you are not regulated, your profit potential skyrockets. Medical tourism is a popular business model for seasteading.
Very little entrepreneurship occurs where the market is mature or the product is developed, or the business model is tested. The point is to engage in the discovery process and learn things about experimenting with (1) living on sea (2) living stateless, and (3) practical experiments in modern voluntary community.
Even if the project fails, it will create a tremendous amount of insight into what doesn’t work. While we can jawbone on internet forums, we’re just guessing and projecting. Entrepreneurship is necessary to provide real and meaningful data.
I am of the opinion, as are some of the successful libertarians involved, that given commitment, we can solve any logistical problems over time. The real issues are the legal and economic ones. Those latter two concerns require third parties to participate, and that can never be assured.
I think some of the arguments by the pro-feudal crowd are definitely circular.
Well, we’re not going to have crowns and people kneeling and all that, but neo-feudalism it will be.
Humans are pack animals, so their societies are hierarchical. Things are pretty predictable from that point.
Pre-industrial humans were pack animals. They no longer are. Sure there are some elements of pack psychology in groups, but I don’t see us going back to that model. It’s important to recognize that feudalism came out of the divine right of kings, and once the mythology about bloodlines was broken, there is no putting that genii back into the bottle short of a major global catastrophe that again, renders us pre-industrial.
My friend, you could use a good dose of Nassim Taleb.
The people who call themselves ‘government of argentina’ recognize no-one as sovereign except themselves =P I think it’s the same thing all over the world ?
No. I think it will be defeated when a critical mass of people willing to challenge it is reached. Or maybe the state will just become obsolete - it’s possible for the human race to progress morally as well as materially, though of course the future is unknown.
True. But when your profits skyrocket because you sell something that’s been banned/regulated, be it ‘recreational drugs’ or healthcare, the so called authorities might get interested in your activities…
I guess it’s an interesting project in a way though I don’t see much of a solution to the legal issues. It seems clear to me that despite the fact that the high seas are not part of any state, all ‘major powers’ can easily wipe out anyone living on a platform and claim they were justified in doing so - ‘terrorism’ for instance being a perfect excuse.
Exactly my point. No sovereign will ever recognize you as sovereign. So within that set of conditions, what can we do to become sovereign in practice, if not in title?
This is precisely the aim of the seasteading project. To make the state obsolete by challenging it with alternative forms of culture, economy and social convention.
True, but when you are very profitable, you can buy all sorts of protection. This is precisely what the state exists for now. To service people of extraordinary means and to protect their properties and business model. By creating a market for private defense and legal services, this erodes the capacity of nation states to operate as territorial monopolies.
You should watch the conference presentations. Very interesting stuff.
But they can (and do) already do that on land. On land, they have the legal authority to do so, at sea, they do not. America being the exception, as that nation does not follow anyone’s laws, including its own. But again, that applies to people in Somalia, and people on the water, so there is no increased risk IMO.
In my opinion, sea-steading and the like are the best way of moving forward to a voluntary society. If a way to hold contracts over federal laws ever arises, the state will have one hell of a hard time.
On another note- check out this article that is a little bothersome.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6950905.ece
Looks like somebody is already ahead of the curve. They describe fish boats not having tracking devices as “loop-holes that must be closed”.
I like this sea-steading idea, but I’m afraid nothing is going to happen as long as they can keep financing those satellites, warships, and airplanes.
What have you done for liberty today?
Do you have a plan that is even more pragramatic than Patri Friedman? If so, I would like to hear about it.
Did it? The legal forms of ownership in feudalism are not dependent on this Catholic concept. And technological advancement only means the fees need not necessarily be land-based.
For that matter, social democracy is just substituting an elected government for the king. You own a fee, even in the US, not allodial title. And even in anarchy, people will still subdivide their ownership interests to get income streams from leases, etc. These rights will descend to their heirs if they are not sold. But with lower time preference in the absence of the State, I’d wager real property will be far less liquid.
I don’t know what the objection to hierarchies is. This very forum has a hierarchy. Football teams, businesses, families, friends, etc.
Tulip bulbs, South Seas plantations, day-trading, housing … nothing new under the sun. Every generation likes to think things are new and different when they come on the scene.
All kings and rulers at one time or another ruled by divine right. Egyptians, Muslims, Jews, Romans and others.
No, technological advancement means that the advantages of so-called natural elites are leveled if not removed.
What is “real property” though?
I have no issue with hierarchies. I like them. But they have to be less static. The better man, not the inherited man is the one to be on the top of a hierarchy or else the system is just another state.
You don’t seem to know anything about him. His best selling works are in epistemology. You could use some insight into epistemology based upon your next sentence …
And there are always some people who pine for the days when the earth was flat, and anxious to remind us that we already know everything there is to know, and frankly things were better 500 years ago. It’s not dissimilar from the 9/11 changed everything crowd. History is a Straussian construct, bent to whatever aim the raconteur wishes to pursue.
Is this Dr. Paul Romer, husband of Dr. Christine Romer, the CEA chair under Obama?
If so, perhaps this actually has some possibility of being put into action?