Communism works in theory, but not in practice

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

Communism is sounds really good because everyone should be equal because no one is better than anyone else. Also, since the government can control things they can make it more efficient and produce only good things that people need.

Native Americans were communist but we Americans KILLED them! Tthis is why we need capitalism because people are greedy and corrupt. But the free market pollutes our environment so even though it is working now it will kill everyone in the future because of global warming.

Even though the russians and the nazis were communist I still think it could work if we all tried. But instead people are just selfish and want to make a lot of money. So communism will always fail which is sad because it is the best form of government (in theory) and where everyone is happy and equal.

[laminustacitus]

Communism also fails in theory, its Achilles’ heel is the calculation problem.

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

But the calculation problem is only theoretical. In real life we know that everyone needs water and food. So a communist government could theoretically provide it to everyone for free.

[liberty_student]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

But the calculation problem is only theoretical.

You mean the Berlin wall only theoretically fell? You mean the Soviet Union, only theoretically collapsed?

You mean the massive human suffering in Cuba is only theoretical? lol

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

Those are just examples of bad communist governments. I’m saying a good communist government wouldn’t do stupid things like that. A good communist government looks after everyone equally, and gives them what they need. Thus, no calculation “problem”.

I said communism is bad IN THEORY. You’re saying it’s bad in practice.

[liberty_student]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

I said communism is bad IN THEORY. You’re saying it’s bad in practice.

Actually, I think it is bad in theory and in practice. lol

[Dondoolee]

The free market is the absence of force, communism can indeed exist in a free market society. The problem is when you use force to promote a system, that is bad and evil.

And what do you mean “people should be equal”? Equal in what?

[liberty_student]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

Those are just examples of bad communist governments.

Do you have any examples of good communist governments?

[garegin]

you people are funny. no “communist” state had a money-less economy that the calcuation problem talks about. the system collapsed when lenin tried abolishing money.

i ask this question to every high school teacher

if socialism doesnt work, why did it work for 70 years?

[Stephen_Forde]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

But the calculation problem is only theoretical. In real life we know that everyone needs water and food. So a communist government could theoretically provide it to everyone for free.

@""

In 1957, the disaster was everywhere. Workers were growing too weak even to harvest their meager crops, so they died watching the rice rot. Industry churned and churned but produced nothing of any use. The government responded by telling people that fat and proteins were unnecessary. But the famine couldn’t be denied. The black-market price of rice rose 20 to 30 times. Because trade had been forbidden between collectives (self-sufficiency, you know), millions were left to starve. By 1960, the death rate soared from 15 percent to 68 percent, and the birth rate plummeted. Anyone caught hoarding grain was shot. Peasants found with the smallest amount were imprisoned. Fires were banned. Funerals were prohibited as wasteful.

I contest that.

[Catalan]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

But instead people are just selfish and want to make a lot of money. So communism will always fail which is sad because it is the best form of government (in theory) and where everyone is happy and equal.

Well, it’s the worst form of government in theory, because the theory doesn’t make any sense (nor does it take into account human nature and the market). It is good only in appeal, not in theory.

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

Also, since the government can control things they can make it more efficient and produce only good things that people need.

I would suggest reading Economics in One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt; there is no simpler refutation on why government is not more efficient than the private sector.

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

Native Americans were communist but we Americans KILLED them! Tthis is why we need capitalism because people are greedy and corrupt. But the free market pollutes our environment so even though it is working now it will kill everyone in the future because of global warming.

What makes you think that the Native Americans were Communist? The Native Americans, at the simplest, lived in a barter economy. They were capitalist.

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

But instead people are just selfish and want to make a lot of money. So communism will always fail which is sad because it is the best form of government (in theory) and where everyone is happy and equal.

The beauty of Capitalism is that although profit is the driving factor, this inevitably creates low prices. And so, living standards increase because of this drive for profit. I would suggest reading diLorenzo’s How Capitalism Saved America. I would also suggest reading Mises’ Socialism.

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

@Dondolee

Communism can’t exist in a free market because people are greedy. In order for us to be equal a communist government has to force people to share. Using force is okay if it has good results. It is better to threaten a rich person than to have many “free” people starve.

@ Liberty Student

I don’t need any examples. I’m saying communism is good in THEORY. But we can’t have it because people are greedy.

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

@Stephen Forde

The key word is theoretical. Not in actual fact. Its obvious that many corrupt governments call themselves communist, but they do other things.

[Catalan]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

Communism can’t exist in a free market because people are greedy. In order for us to be equal a communist government has to force people to share. Using force is okay if it has good results. It is better to threaten a rich person than to have many “free” people starve.

Capitalism is sharing, because the contracts established are for mutual benefit. The manager will offer the worker employment so that he can produce, but in exchange the worker earns a wage. The contract was mutually beneficial, or else neither of the two would have accepted the contract. Only government coerces people to accept contracts through force.

Don’t you wonder how capitalist countries have not had massive epochs of starvation in their modern history, while communist countries have?

[1billion]

I’m sure some hippies would create commune like things in a free market, but if thats what they want. lol

[liberty_student]

@Dondoolee

The free market is the absence of force, communism can indeed exist in a free market society.

Yeah, but it still won’t overcome the calculation problem. Libertarian socialists are welcome in a free society to order themselves however they see fit, but if they eschew the market for pricing and efficiency, well history is littered with the sad results of a system that cannot rationally allocate scarce resources.

I don’t often make statements predicting the consequences of a free society, but I believe very strongly in the necessity of the market as a pricing mechanism.

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

@ Jonathan M. F. Catalán

The fact that communism ignores the nature of human beings is good, because we are selfish and it is better for everyone to be equal and well fed.

Hazlitt’s arguments, I presume, are the same old song and dance from libertarians about the free market. I am not denying that the free market is to a degree efficient, but I think that it is theoretically possible to have a more equal society that takes care of everyone. This system would necessarily be superior to capitalism if it could be realised.

Even though profit reduces prices, this doesn’t matter because a communist government can also theoretically attain efficiency. You give examples on inefficient communist governments, but really they are just not as efficient as the free market. Theoretically, they could be more efficient.

[liberty_student]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

I don’t need any examples. I’m saying communism is good in THEORY. But we can’t have it because people are greedy.

But you agreed that it is bad in theory (calculation problem). You really must be a socialist, because you don’t even agree with yourself! [:D]

[Post_Socratic_Obstru]

@Liberty Student

I also think that a free market is necessary.

I’m only saying that in theory communism would be better. but we can’t make ti work because people are selfish. So we have to have capitalism.

[liberty_student]

@Post_Socratic_Obstructionist

I’m only saying that in theory communism would be better. but we can’t make ti work because people are selfish

But people are not selfish. They act in their own self-interest. If they didn’t act in their own self-interest, then they wouldn’t be able to survive.