“Even if things did not look bleak, why would you stay in school? It is generally a waste of time and resources.”
That’s a stupid arguement. I mean if you can earn more once you’re done, it pays to get a degree. Now if you’re going into debt to get it, that’s another story. But if not, it’s a great investment if you’re degree is worthwhile and if you go to grad school or law school, even better. That’s where the real high paying jobs are. Even if you have to go into debt to get a 6-figure job in most cases it’s worth it.
Here are some excellent, high paying jobs: Tax attorney, CPA, Patent Attorney, Accounting Professor, Law Professor.
These are all in high demand, pay very well to extremely well, and all require at least a bachelor’s degree and most require plenty of grad school.
“That’s a stupid arguement. I mean if you can earn more once you’re done, it pays to get a degree.”
It would be stupid to someone that does not understand the time value of money/wealth/productivity/experience.
“Now if you’re going into debt to get it, that’s another story.” Whether one is going into debt or using savings, either way, there is probably better things one could do with the money.
“But if not, it’s a great investment if you’re degree is worthwhile and if you go to grad school or law school, even better. That’s where the real high paying jobs are. Even if you have to go into debt to get a 6-figure job in most cases it’s worth it.” I bet Bill Gates would disagree. But, maybe it is just him.
"Here are some excellent, high paying jobs: Tax attorney, CPA, Patent Attorney, Accounting Professor, Law Professor.
These are all in high demand, pay very well to extremely well, and all require at least a bachelor’s degree and most require plenty of grad school."
And just to clarify, I said generally. I did not say there are not any worthwhile degrees.
Like it or not a college degree is usually what’s needed today to get a good job. That’s not to say you can’t have a good career without one (like a UPS driver or an electrician), but if you want to do anything related to finance, economics, or accounting (among many, many other things) you have to obtain a degree. A college degree also opens up many doors for employment opportunities not related to your field of study. By virtue of having a bachelors you are already pushed to the front of the line when applying for jobs.
Also, if money is a factor go the correspondence route. LSU has a great correpsondence program and you can take most your basics for about $300 a class including books. And they transfer almost everywhere. Or going to community college for basics is fine too. Cost effective doesn’t mean you will miss out on opportunities out there. Just try to keep a high gpa regardless where you go.
Agreed. Community college is good if you are trying to save money and your advisors there will make sure that all the credits you’re taking will transfer to the college you yourself are transferring to.
“Like it or not a college degree is usually what’s needed today to get a good job.” You need to expound on this, like what a “good job” is, and then show that the time value of money was worth it.
Probably more accurate to say that if you get a degree you won’t be eliminated from the job pool right off the bat.
On the job, you quickly find that the college degree is just a piece of paper.
What we’ve witnessed is an insane pre-occupation with degrees from the most prestigious schools - even though they might not be the best. On top of that, you have the government forcing companies to live up to government standards, which BTW have very little to do with the work involved, in order to do business with them. The more the government gets its hands into business, the more unnecessary requirements are. I believe this subject has been covered fully elsewhere on this forum.
In my opinion the order of importance of job qualifications are:
Applicable job experience (including internship)
Applicable people skills (more technical work could make this #3)
Applicable technical skills (more technical work could make this #2)
Education
After about 5 years or so, unless your a professor most don’t give a damn about your degree.
Don’t get me wrong. Getting a top-tier degree can get you into the “club” so-to-speak with some managers or companies, but honestly, that’s an extremely expensive resume that may take a very long time to pay for itself.
Were the Romans in charge? Or was it their arrogance? Were the Nazis? The Soviets?
Nazi-Germany is kind of a special case but as far as the Roman empire and the Soviet Union goes they didn’t end overnight causing mass despair and depression as a result. The dark-ages was not really so dark and it took a long time before that for the Roman Empire to wither away. Living in medival Europe was a lot better then living under Roman rule for many people.
When the Soviet Union was changed a lot for the better before it fell. When it did most people living under it got it a whole lot better economically. Some places in Russia not so much but there the totalitarism has not really fallen.
Nazi-Germany is first of all an anomaly cause it would never have happened without outsiders dictating German policy. The people enforcing the Treaty of Verssailles did not care if there was hyper-inflation in Germany and did not loose there jobs because of it.
Secondly Nazi-Germany was crushed by other states and left in ruins. I do not think global war is a likley way for the current world order to end. Probably it will be a gradual decline and change more along with the fall of the Roman Empire. This really isn’t all that bad for common people.
Our current system is actually pretty dynamic it can change pretty easily and the relativly deregulated markets we enjoy can coup with a lot of looting before they collapse.
There are links in that article to the US Census Bureau statistics that show that those with a college degree earn twice as much as those without a college degree.
As far as school goes you should definetly stay in it. You do learn a lot of shit but they actually teach a whole lot of accurate facts and trivia too.
Except for the natural sciences maybe school does not teach you any understanding but do teach facts about a variety of stuff that is usefull to have with you. This maybe different from country to country the Swedish school system is actually relativly pretty objective with a very scientific approach to natural sciences and I had at least mainstream free-market social science teachers. Still it can’t be completley useless if you complement with your own education.
There are links in that article to the US Census Bureau statistics that show that those with a college degree earn twice as much as those without a college degree."
That proves nothing. U.S. census statistics are not scientific. Also, what you need, is to factor in the cost of going to school, as opposed to working. The people that did not go to college have no school debt, did not waste savings on it, and earned money on top of that while the other people were going to school.
It shows that statistically you are more likely to earn more money with a college degree than without one. Those are all valid points you raised but when you calculate the PV of a college education you’ll see that it doesn’t hold up.
Bottom line: school is important. The ideal situation is being a straight A student and getting scholarships the whole way through - a free ride. The next ideal situation is no scholarship, but having someone else pay for it like parents. After that are government grants if you qualify. Last is having to go into debt - this is the least ideal situation.
But if you have a long term plan and goals you should be able to pay off you debts and make more money and save more than had you not gone to school. Not all of us are Bill Gates, but even he was a straight A student and could go to any school he choose in the world. He only quit because he had an idea that changes the world of business and technology.
Ideas like that are extremely rare or nonexistent. 99.999% of people don’t have ideas like that and even if they do, most times they get a degree and even get a graduate degree. Look at Warren Buffet, for example, who has a master’s, etc. So that’s why I would just stay in school, get straight A’s, and finish, and even get a master’s, JD, Ph.d, and/or LLM.
As long as it’s a relevent degree - engineering, accounting, law; or a Ph.d in any of those or economics even is fine, you will never regret it and it will pay off in the long run no matter how old you are.
30.000 Euros is the average money necessary to open a business.
Virtually all the people who go to college end up working for others, not their own, that´s what they learn, to be a servant, to do what they are told and how, to listen to their bosses, teachers, higher-ups. Don´t do that, be a businessman, listen to the consumer, user your brain before it creativity and thinking is destroyed and substituted by meaningless repetitions.
You should start working as soon as possible, save, and start your business, as easy as it sounds.
Player wrote the following post at Thu, Jun 3 2010 3:55 AM:
"30.000 Euros is the average money necessary to open a business.
Virtually all the people who go to college end up working for others, not their own, that´s what they learn, to be a servant, to do what they are told and how, to listen to their bosses, teachers, higher-ups. Don´t do that, be a businessman, listen to the consumer, user your brain before it creativity and thinking is destroyed and substituted by meaningless repetitions.
You should start working as soon as possible, save, and start your business, as easy as it sounds."
Okay hot shot, show us how it’s done. What have you done and what business have you started so you do nothing earn money hands over fists?!? None, I take it.
Thank’s for the positive advice everyone. It just sucks how our lives are affected so much by the stupidity of others but I guess that’s just democracy and life for you.
@spidey
Why do you believe businesses only use accounting methods because of government? While I agree government forces them to do a lot more than they would otherwise, accounting is still very a effective and efficient way of anaylzing the productivity of your business. It’s actually essitential if you want to keep track of your transactions and know if your making a profit. I was thinking of becoming an accountant or something related to finance.
Free market accounting would look like this: cash in - cash out = profit. As a summer intern, I ran economic analyses on my projects and it was basically what everyone in the company does to assess the profitability of projects. The accounting people seem to just be there to keep books for government, since accounting is bogged down with all sorts of philosophical rules, like conservatism and ‘full disclosure’. See GAAP.
Accounting is an excellent choice. Finance is way overrated, unless you are going to a top 20 school and finish near the top of your class. Then you might be able to get an internship at a hedge fund or investment bank, or maybe an entry level position at a private equity firm. But in most cases hedge funds and investment banks want master’s or phd grads from top 20 at the top of their class, and they’ve laid off many people this past year.
At least accounting, you could become a CPA. I know a guy who works at a bank, has a finance degree, and is going back to school to take accounting courses. Even banks want their people to have accounting backgrounds to analyze individuals’ and businesses’ financial statements when applying for a loan.
Believe me, I know exactly how you feel about living in a statist world. Just remember you are the victim. See all this sh** as challenges and obstacles to overcome on your journey in life. Life is too short and you can still have a great life even with all the bs they try to throw at you.
Here’s a link to some great advice Stephan Kinsella, who is a patent attorney and Austro-Anarchist, gave to prospective libertarian law students:
The letter in the middle of the page titled “Advice to a confused anarcho-capitalist student” is very helpful. It is very relevant to anyone, not just those thinking about law school. Good luck and remember you will come out stronger and happier than ever when all is said and done.