Eleven Years Later: The Modern Irrelevance of the "Libertarian Straddle"

Source.

One thing that disturbs me is the readiness with which Rothbard is dismissed and Mises praised. Libertarianism is a political philosophy - not a mere branch of economics. Why should it be surprising if philosophical arguments are given in addition to economic ones? Pure consequentialism does not cut it.

-Jon

Indeed, if you try to build a society on consequentialism, you’re going to have some serious problems with arbitration without recourse to morality.

You can use consequentialism to describe the best system of government (or lack thereof) for a society, but when it comes down to individuals, using consequentialism to justify them adhering to your idea breaks down. You can say “respecting private property and not stealing will yield the highest average standards of living for society”, but you then have to compel individuals to not steal. How do you do this? You cannot really appeal to consequences in the form of punishments because punishment for theft are also based on the morality and ethics of private property as derived from self-ownership…

I may be just talking rubbish though.

Agreed. I see consequentialist arguments are being secondary to arguments based in natural law and virtue, although they are still important.

I think what the libertarian movement needs is to convince more Friedmans to get into economics.

I agree with the author insofar that using nonconsequentialist arguments is somewhat pointless. The vast majority of people are not interested in rights but in consequences. They erroneously believe that more government intervention is needed to make the poor, minorities, etc. better off and that monopolies, business cycles, and involuntary unemployment are the result of a free market. Nobody wants to hear why a free market is morally superior, they want to hear how it will leave them and their peers better off.

I’d go further than the author and say that people are interested in utilitarian arguments, not consequentialist ones. Most people aren’t interested in how laissez faire capitalism is better from an ethical egoist standpoint (which is also consequentialist), instead, they prefer to inflate their egos and their “Christian-ness” by believing they want to help everyone, so they essentially take a utilitarian standpoint.

However, I disagree with the author about Murray Rothbard. Rothbard showed how a libertarian society would be much better consequentialy as well as from his nonconsequentialist natural rights based view. There is nothing wrong with that. I don’t care if you argue for capitalism from a non-utilitarian standpoint (i.e. Rothbard & natural rights or Rand & ethical egoism) as long as you also include arguments which will appeal to your average wannabe utilitarian.

Then again I’m a nihilist, so why listen to me?

LOL.

Well the thing is, many people do in fact think capitalism is immoral. So bursting that bubble is a victory in itself. Of course one cannot divorce ethics from consequences entirely - to do so is foolish - and I definitely think Rothbard contributed decisively in showing how the free market is best at producing and distributing scarce resources.

-Jon

But don’t most people approach morality from a utilitarian standpoint? Children are taught from a young age how Robin Hood was great and how capitalism only steals from the poor, discriminates against minorities, and gives unfair wages to essentially everyone. People associate capitalism with things like the Great Depression, pollution, unemployment, monopolies, etc. They all view this as morally bad, from a “utilitarian” viewpoint (I put “utilitarian” in quotes since most people tend to think among those lines but are not utilitarian at all inpractice).

I think the key to arguing for pure, unfettered capitalism is from this utilitarian POV. Explain to your opponents how a free market produces superior results for the average person, how pollution would become a problem of the past, how deforestation would be reversed, how involuntary unemployment would cease (except for frictional unemployment), how wages would begin to rise, etc.

Now, when you explain that, you can begin to convert them to whatever your preferential ethical system is (i.e. natural rights, contractarianism, ethical egoism, etc.). I agree that you can’t have a free market side-by-side with a society that practices utilitarianism. I believe Ayn Rand did a rather good job of bringing people over to libertarianism and keeping them with her brand of ethical egoism. Once people understood libertarianism as economically feasible, they would learn how it is morally superior according to Miss Rand, and thus become permanent converts. Rothbard’s approach, unfortunately, never received as much publicity.

People like Robin Hood because they believe he was good (it turns out, by the way, that he was, but not for the reasons they attribute to him.) You will not win people over with consequentialism, because consequentialist arguments can be pushed aside as irrelevant. “Sure, free-markets produce more efficiency and more output - but it’s distributed unfairly.” You can try all you want, but you won’t convince a socialist that the free-market produces the same kind of equality that they’re seeking, because it doesn’t. If you want to convince them, you need to convince them why there’s something wrong with the kind of equality they’re seeking.

Personally, I’m with Long, who says (paraphrasing) “It can’t be that free markets work really well in making people happy, but that’s entirely irrelevant to the discussion - but it also can’t be the whole discussion.” In other words, I don’t think we need to draw a consequentialist/deontological divide and say “liberty must be justified on either of these grounds.” The defense of liberty needs to not just include both factors, but integrate both factors seamlessly. Now all we have to do is figure out how to do that.

Most socialists aren’t socialists because they believe in equal distribution, but because they believe equal (or close to equal) distribution of economic goods will cause the greatest average happiness. That’s where we have to fight them and their misconceptions about the market economy.

That’s pretty much what I already said, and I’m pretty sure people like Murray Rothbard and Ayn Rand have already been doing that.

I don’t see much use in fighting about “happiness,” it’s too hard to tie down. Why not ask why someone has the right to make himself happy at someone else’s expense? Just how are you going to convince them anything about happiness without violating your principle of subjective values?

I see an attempt, not necessarily successful, in Rothbard. I don’t see where Rand many any effort to go beyond deontological ethical statements by integrating them with claims about utility, as opposed to simply saying both next to each other without showing a relationship between them.

What if I and Mister Friedman disagree about what is better?

No. Utilitarianism is itself a deontic system. Few, if any, people would accept the system when stretched to its logical conclusions. I’m not sure why people think utilitarianism is more intuitive or metaphysically non-burdensome. It isn’t. Personally, I am an Aristotelian, so I am unwilling to accept this massive divide between deontic and consequentialist accounts - and see more in happiness than mere satisfaction of desires, especially when this is at the expense of others.

A lot of them, based on this misinformation, also see exchange as inherently exploitative and incapable of bringing about a situation in which one person treats another as an end, and not a mere means, or owners as doing nothing but stealing from the workers. IOW, they reject capitalism due to what they see as one of its consequences, but their ultimate reasons for doing so are not purely consequentialist. Not all cases are like this though - if someone sees capitalism as wrong due to its basis on selfishness, it is necessary to engage in moral argumentation to get the person to change their viewpoint - because no mere consequence will change their minds in this case.

Yep, as I said consequences do matter to the ethical system, so I don’t really differ on this.

-Jon

To be honest, if they have this as their guiding principle, I would question whether or not they are really even libertarians. As libertarians, shouldn’t we support liberty regardless of consequences? Regardless of what “superior wealth creators” might exist? IMHO, liberty is good in itself.

I’d call this position “wealthitarianism” not libertarianism.