Personally, I’d rather move to the limits of where any state claims it has a territorial monopoly, step right outside that boundary, and setup a free society. I’m speaking of course about seasteading 
Rather than spend a generation fighting to secede–probably they wouldn’t allow it–foot-vote right out of their jurisdiction.
When would you say we would be able to do seasteading?
I’m planning a pilot seastead to be deployed within the decade. I’m designing dwellings now, including how to build them on the sea itself so they will never have sat in port or in any jurisdiction’s waters (so that no one can claim them subject to any jurisdiction thereby).
After that, I’ll start taking orders and build them at a profit for anyone who wants to join in. Probably wouldn’t cost more than $10k - $20k, at a build cost of say $5-10k.
There’ll be “land” based on artificial-interlocking floating dock technology that currently exists, which will also serve to tamp down wave action. The houses themselves are in the style of the monolithic-dome, only rather than a mrtr half dome they are joined to another dome underneath to serve as the hull and to displace water for flotation.
Wow, sounds awesome. I think I remember from another post that you said that you’d like to build it off the coast of California. Would people be able to build their own-style homes on the seastead? For example, an entreupreneur might want to invest and build a bunch of highrise apartments, or a metrorail, or something.
Anemone, are you rich?
Id love to try to live in it when i turn 18+…
Skepticalmetal, have you watched the documentary?
Hell yeah. It would be like the ultimate libertarian megacenter.
And no, I have not watched the documentary. Not too keen about using a torrent, either.
Pft. Seasteading. It’s space we should be homesteading. There is no income tax, no capital gains tax, and not even any desire to establish a minimum wage law in Mars. The Martian people have never found it neccessary to form a state to boot.
@ShireSilver
Is it really that frustrating? At times I consider the potential of the libertarian party being of some success at the local level, but if its got no future it seems New Hampshire is better worth the energy spent into it.
@ Michelangelo
Y not use a torrent?
Its a libertarian documentary of course u can copy it. no one will come to jail you lol.
Ive pirated tons of stuff an no cop has come to my door. no vpn no proxy.
Absolutely. In fact, I think businesses would love to setup various manufacturing centers and the like there, where you’d have the advantage of no red tape and no taxes, and no facility rent. Most businesses could buy a large-scale dome to equal their current facilities size for the cost of a mere few months of what they pay in rent at their current place, not even counting taxes and regulations.
Before that can happen, I think I need to prove that a permanent ocean settlement for people and families is possible, and get any potential jurisdictional challenges out of the way should the US authorities object, which I doubt they will intiially. And what better way than to live there myself.
Unfortunately no, or I’d already have this place up and running! Obviously I can’t do it alone. I may at some point start a foundation to accept donations towards this end, we’ll see.
You’d certainly be welcome 
I agree completely. In space they will be unable to stop libertarian ideals from specific implementation. I see seasteading as a necessary intermediary between land a space, a stage we must go through. Living on and in the water is much like living in space. You have to deal with extremes of pressure differentials, especially for those whom would live under the water.
You also have to create new conceptions of dividing property in three dimensions in the water, as also in space, rather than the current two dimensions of land. I plan to create some software to make three-dimensional property bounding possible and will setup a title company to effect it on the water.
One problem I have is how to deal with claims of homesteading the water. It’s something I’m researching actively now. How do we verify homestead claims or the like, limit them in size rationally, objectively?
Beyond that, how do you allow the homesteading of an area someone wants to keep in its natural state. The labor theory of homesteading would preclude that, yet there needs to be some allowance for such a purpose. I think we have a deficient theory of homesteading generally, or perhaps I just haven’t yet encountered the right ideas.
If you think about the quid pro quo relationship business and unions have with the major political parties, you can see why the libertarian party would have trouble gaining any traction. Not to mention the innate contradiction of seeking public office in order to do away with the power of a public office–something an elected official doesn’t have the power to do.
I’ve found watching politics much less frustrating after concluding, I think rightly, that relying on the political process for positive change towards liberty is going only to produce disappointment.
Have you seen the Intrade numbers on Obama? Someone’s awfully sure he’s going to be re-elected.
My best protest against socialized healthcare is not to fight it within the system, but rather to create an alternative. I think medicine a few miles off the coast in international waters could be an awesome end-run around the new socialized system which prevents people from paying directly for care.
I could easily see some doctors fleeing the US healthcare system and setting up shop on the water, taking customers the world over. These would probably also be the highest rated doctors who’d have had their wages cut mightily, not to mention all the red tape and centralized control, if they stayed in the system.
Well, I for one would certainly contribute to your foundation. I mean, The Seasteading Institute sounds pretty good and all, but they seem more like minarchists, wanting “alternative governments,” or something like that.
Good to hear.
I like what SI is all about; they’ve taken concrete steps and attracted funding–that’s all encouraging. Recently someone gave them a giant boat which they’re renting out now.
If they hadn’t started such an institute, I very well may have myself
But, as you say, they may not have their theory and philosophy up to snuff. That’s something I’m very cognizant of myself. I really don’t want to get something up and running and one day realize I was too uninformed to catch some critical aspect that dooms the venture through inner-contradictions.
Rothbard in For a New Liberty mentions the need for a libertarian legal code for a free society to rally around and relate under. I need to build such a thing somehow, or we do. So, I’m deep in a philosophical research phase right now. Autolykos has done a lot to help me get my head straight on certain things, for which I’m quite grateful, knocking hopefully the last vestiges of statism out of me
Seasteading is a means to end, not the end itself. The end is much broader than just focusing on seasteading. Seasteading could be equally evil if it is the statists whom get their hands on it first. I really think we live in a perfect historical epoch for getting a libertarian seastead going so that the two become associated, before any other political system can take root on the water and claim jurisdiction over the seas as states do on the land. The next 20 years will be critical.
Yeah, in fact you just reminded me of something I’ve been contemplating for a while now and was even thinking of asking about here on the forum. What I am speaking of is the idea that an anarchist society would not last long if it is surrounded by statist societies. Take Somalia for example. They had anarchy for a while (I’m not saying that that is a prime example, but if I were to choose between living in pre-anarchy Somalia and anarchy Somaila, I would have definately chosen anarchy), and just look at what happened. The CIA has to come in with their transitional government, and now the place is back to where it was. That’s why I think that perhaps the world must be voluntaryist and that a small anarchist society would only be temporary (the mafia sees territory ripe for the picking).
Maybe on land. On water it may not be so easy to destroy an free society, as it has room to grow and can disperse and reform at will, as well as go underwater. Remains to be seen.
Ultimately a free society should be at least twice as wealthy on average, since it’s not siphoning off half people’s income to government decision-surrogates.
Thus, a free society could spend half its income on defense if it had to 
I don’t think you should worry about that too much. The prospects for liberty long term are more and more sure, as a free society should be the most just, least contentious, and most stable living system ever devised.
The people in a free society need to have a philosophical base of liberty to apply, then such things perhaps would be much less likely.
I think you misunderstand the mafia. They’re engaged in providing black market services. In a free society there would be no black markets, and therefore absolutely no profit for the mafia to exploit. There would probably be little to no mafia presence in a free society, they wouldn’t want the competition.
The mafia without police and politicians to bribe and buyout is defanged. Without drug laws the circumvent, is poor too.
What else would anarcho-capitalism be than bunch of alternative set of laws, or “polycentric law”, when everyone can decide the law code of their backyard?
No no, I was talking about the government when I said “mafia.”
I see Well, the libertarian legal code would need to hold voluntaryism as a fundamental way to order society.
Thing about the formation of a government, it usually has to be done all at once by the statists, in large moves. If we can limit them to trying to achieve it on a person to person basis, it will probably fail, since all attempts at statism are ultimately aggressions, and if people can foot vote away from aggressions and sue against them, should prove a great defense in a free society.
We shall see. I’m excited to finally try out such a place