So, my government is offering to pay up a postgraduate degree for me in mathematics, full ride, if I manage to get accepted at a Times Ranking top 200 school or a preeminent national research institute. A few years ago I wouldnt hesitate to take it, but now, 1 year of declared austrianism later, I can’t help but feel like a leech and a hypocrite. On the other hand, I really want to do a masters in mathematics, if only for the joy of learning about the subject and having a really bad-ass pice of paper to exhibit in my wall.
I had that attitude in the past. I never did my taxes or applied for anything to procure any benefits. Now I only care about libertarians. I finally broke down after failing to make money without getting a “real” (crap) job and I’m planning to apply to university/college for next semester and take every subsidy I can get for it. The total cost to all libertarians for anything I take would be less one cent, none of it paid for with existing money.
Think about the long run. If by taking the scholarship, you believe you will be a net gain to society, and give back more than you took - take it. The government raises the cost of college and will likely steal from you the rest of your life, so there is no reason to feel guilty about taking from it. They already took the money from other people and taking money from them won’t harm you in the long run (like welfare would.) You are only acting in your own self-interest and to think you are being a leech for not putting yourself at a disadvantage to everyone else is fallacious.
P.S. I’m a math major as well at a top university.
You have an option. Work and earn the money to go to school on your own. It’s harder. It will take longer. But it is consistent with being a libertarian.
The less resources in the hands of the state the better. Contribute nothing, take what you can. The state is a criminal organization, you are doing society good by taking resources that could instead be used to fund the instruments of coercion.
Would you take stolen property from a thief if he offered it to you? Would you say this is a good way to put the thief out of business or would you say that this helps validate what he is going, and make it very hard for you (the recipient of stolen goods) to argue against theft?
The way I see it, the state is an organization that goes around breaking people’s legs and then hands them crutches. I don’t see anything wrong with taking the assistance in light of the situation.
The government is going to steal that money, whether the end result is that you become a more-educated opponent of the state or whether it goes to educating one of their schills. Take the money. I sure as hell am.
If the state were to steal less if you did not take the money, that would be a different story. At least by your procurement of the funds, you have a better chance of disabling the state elsewhere and preventing future theft.
So it’s ok to receive stolen goods because someone is going to receive them anyway?
The pool they can steal from is finite. Money is just a token for purchasing power. There is a finite amount of production in this world.
Yes, I am sure every libertarian receiving welfare is using it to undermine the state and position themselves to not pay taxes.
I understand people will rationalize this stuff because they want free things stolen from others without any accountability, but let’s be honest about it. Just say, yes, I am taking stuff to get mine because I want it. This silliness about pretending there is some moral high ground to taking welfare, and specifically welfare one does not actually need to survive, or that the funds somehow are going to fuel a libertarian revolution is downright embarassing.
If we want a libertarian world, let’s try to keep things straight and call them as they are.
It depends on whether or not you have Virtue, and if so, what it consists of.
Like others have already stated, there are many ways to rationalize taking advantage of this opportunity. Most would probably fault you as foolish and prideful should you not.
Recently I graduated without the aid of a single grant, scholarship, or loan. I suffered for it, but I have very little confusion in my life, and subsequently sleep very well.
Currency is fungible, so it isn’t as if I’m taking John Doe’s watch as a gift from a thief. The thief has put the money he has ALREADY stolen where I can grab it, and (at least personally) I will use it to the thief’s detraction. Some of that money was mine or my family’s in the first place, and I know that the thief will rob me again in the future. There is nothing immoral or inconsistent about appropriating those funds for myself.
I’m about to start law school at an historically-black state university… for free, because of affirmative action. It feels great.
I can see the argument that you’re a net tax producer. I really can. Are you a net tax producer?
Stealing from a thief isn’t justice for the party stolen from. You seem to be playing both sides against the middle. On the one hand, it doesn’t matter if you take what was stolen from others, and on the other hand, you are entitled to what was stolen from you.
Again, people are going to take that money. That is why we’ll wake up tomorrow and still have a state. And the next day and the next day.
Just be straight with what is actually occurring because rationalizing motives is irrelevant. Socialists have great motives too.
You are addressing a point I struggle with. I feel the same way. If we utilize as much government services as possible, that is the demand they justify for raising taxes. Even though we don’t vote, we vote with our dollar. We are falling into dependancy by relying on the beast.
Though, how does one address the money taken from me?
You brought a big smile to my face. I don’t feel so alone now.
I turned down government money in a tough spot some time ago and it was hard for 6 months, but I am much further ahead now and I think that the fact that I did things consistent with my principles was a huge factor in my success. None of the people who wanted me to take government money question my decision now.
I think every “good” libertarian has to struggle with this. It is the biggest test we face. Where the rubber hits the road. Where we actually have to live up to our principles.
Not only that, but the notion that it is “stealing from the government” is so ridiculous. If one wants to “steal from the government”, don’t take the money they give freely. Stop paying taxes or something. Taking welfare doesn’t hurt the state, it perpetuates it. The state wants all of us naked before it. It wants all of us on welfare if possible.
I really don’t know. I like that the state steals at least $1 from me, that way I can complain about how it is a thief. I am a net tax producer in spades, not counting all of the taxes I produce indirectly.
I might take it but I can understand if some wouldn’t. I don’t know…there’s a line somwhere, and I think that if a fellow lib tries to define that line for you, politely tell them to f*ck off, proper. There’s nothing worse than other people pretending to decide gray areas for you, and it comes off more as anti-libertarian than being helpful.
If we hemmed and hawed about utlizing any subsidized thing we wouldn’t step out our front door.