Greek Crisis Update

Miscellaneous Current Events
21

Kobalt sez, “…productivity is higher here than in the US (Fr > US in productivity dude, so they can go to strike and still produce the same wealth per capita, and moreover they enjoy in average 2 more weeks of legal holidays per year than the average US worker ! :slight_smile: )”

OECD sez - France is 3.8% less productive

Kobalt sez, “you (folks in the godforsaken USA) have a very low and unequalitarian tax system”

NTU sez - top 1% of income earners pays over 40% of income taxes (if low taxes are bad, what’s wrong with an extremely egalitarian 100% tax burden for everybody?)

Kobalt implies you can get free services if you pay taxes but can’t decipher TANSTAAFL and would seemingly rather live 80.7 years as a house cat rather than 78.2 years as a bobcat.

Keep the faith Kakugo, your presence will be missed.

Back to topic - it seems the IMF will be there to help Greece … in a a Dr. Kervokian kind of way (to paraphrase Max Keiser)

22

I think a lot of posters here suffer from forum asperger’s syndrome

23

@Kokagu:

sorry you take it this way. I don’t know if i’m “snobish” but I prefer to talk about ideas and theories including if people don’t share the same, than to do personal bashing without any solid support except unverified information or unaccurate information, as it seems you are doing.

I just specified that “taxes” are just one economic tool among others, and can help to finance goods and services, and consequently under specific conditions taxes can make the market more efficient, and provide wealth and weel being. i repeat “under specific conditions”, i’m not fan of taxes either, but i don’t deny that in some cases it can be efficient and usefull, and i’m convinced that the lower need for taxes the better.

Actually i’ve been a studient some years ago but not anymore for a long while. But i’m earning my life working 10.5 months a year (where does this 6 months come from? please precise your sources??? in which country is this possible i just want to move there? :slight_smile: ) and you can check the condition of infrastructures like roads and railways in western EU: it’s exactly the same as in NYC and i assume you know that most of the roads in NYC are in a good condition.

In most of western European countries (except mediterranean and eastern countries which are in crisis now), people do pay healthcare taxes and if they want they can pay an extra health insurance too (about 30 USD per year for the lower rates, what a big deal?), and they generaly got very good health services. Some explaination: the healthcare taxes covers most of the essential hospital and doctor’s costs, and the health insurance just ensure you can recover the extra amount of costs which is not covered and generally corresponds to non-essential health services or medication, that you can decide to buy from your own will and without real need for your health or without scientificaly proven effect but that you would like to get anyway (like if you want a precise brandt of medication instead of others, etc). You can check all that on the web, in official websites as well as in health NGO websites. Again you probably missunderstood what you heard on TV and mixed the situation in the UK in te 1990’s with the high level of services available in continental western Europe.

For a blood exam as you talk about it, you don’t even need to book any date, just come and have it done. You’ll generally get your blood test results after 1 to 7 days, according to the complexity of the tests to be completed. By the way, to go to see a generalist doctor of high level in western Europe costs to the client about 30 USD for a normal consultation. You generally got it 90% personnaly reimbursed (from the state services to your bank account) by the healthcare taxes system. The remaining 10% are covered by your personnal health insurance.

Maybe you “un-intentionaly” mixed up “ex-USSR shity countries” with “rich and developped western european countries and EU”? Again, i’m not talking about ideology of taxes (as you are doing), but ONLY about efficiency of economical tools to promote a better wealth and well-being of nations.

So long too then.

24

(You’re right, my posts are damn too long. thx for pointing it out. i’ll make it short from now. sorry about that)

@kokagu: Please stay Sir. No need to get furious whenever sbdy is not agreeing with you. As for me, some of your sources are wrong. Try to convince me…

@bbnet: 1) checked OCDE website and you’re right here. The gap is about 4%. I’m interested to know if the labour productivity in the US compared to France’s is always higher or if it’s variable? Even then, these guys who go often on strike, live longer, suffer less stress and lower criminality, have 5 weeks of holidays per year, etc. and still their productivity is almost the same as in the US? Amazing… 2) i never mentioned “godforsaken USA”: i respect all countries and USA is a great country amongst others. Do you think other countries can be not so bad either? Pluralist democracies are plenty you know… Free countries also. 3) I liked your teasing. As you know well “100% egalitarian tax” system benefits only to the richest quantile in the population, as the poorer you are the higher share of your income you would have to give as taxes to the Gov. (i. e. you will mainly tax middle and low income population). but i think here you mix “equality” (= “the same for all”, that i dislike for economic issues) and “equity” (= refers to justice and efficiency). 4) well, if you really believe Continental Europeans are living as “house cat” and prefer to live “longuer than free”, i can’t help with such a dumb point of view, it’s too funny and/or irrealistic. If you really prefer “freedom” more than “the USA always whatever it is”, then you’ll be delighted to visit others developed countries, where also some good things can be source of inspiration to get more freedom, including in the USA…

25

The Germans are already on the hook for Greece’s debt. The decision has been made long ago, when German banks bought the Greek bonds loaded into their books. The question now is whether German taxpayers pay for (1) a direct Greek bailout, or for (2) a roundabout bailout of their own banks after a Greek default destroys the values of their Greek bond holdings. Option (1) saves the banks but it’s blatantly obvious to – thus rejected by – the voters. Option (2) is riskier and it also involves the banks, BUT is more complex, thus more amenable to pulling wool over the voter’s eyes. Lean back and get your pop-corn.

Z.

26

There cannot be anything economical about taxation, as it is not exchange, and as such no economic evaluations can be made about the goods being distributed through the process.

27

@nandnor: kindly refer to the article published in “The Free Market, the von Mises Institute Monthly”, available on “von Mises Institute” website : http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=367. This article will explain you what are “externalities” about and why sometimes market is inefficient. If you still think there is absolutly no link ever between “taxation” and “economy” (virtuous or vicious link), please just try to explain why externalities can dare to exist, if Free Market is all-perfect (while all other systems on this planet can fail sometimes) and please explain how can market itself fix problems it’s contributed to generate at the initial step?

Tax are just one way, if applied on a clever way and under strict conditions. How do you plan to finance Police, Army, Justice in a real world without taxes and still reach the general optimum??? Any existing example of success of functional “0% tax country” that could validate your hypotesis maybe?

28

Who are you quoting here?