Healthcare in Other Countries

I just saw that Israel has a publicly-funded healthcare system. I always thought they were very free-market. Which countries have privatized healthcare like the United States? And can someone help me argue again why healthcare costs are going up so much? I think it’s at like 16% GDP now. And somehow Israel and Ireland have universal healthcare and use one-half of our percentage even despite their lower GDPs. Is this because of (1) their smaller population and (2) rationing, or what?

Also, if someone can give me their best links to help arguments for privatized insurance, that’d be great. I don’t like the existence of health insurance in the first place, let alone mandatory, but anything to help in arguments will be great. Thank you.

The U.S. healthcare system is not privatized. [The U.S.] Government’s role in health care has been steadily growing since Medicare and Medicaid were established 45 years ago.

Mises.org editor Jeffrey Tucker said July 8, 2010: “I was just at the veterinarian’s office with a puppy, getting shots for the pooch and generally checking his health, dealing with fleas, and looking into this issue and that. The doctor spent quite the time with me and the dog, gave us free stuff, administered various shots, and helped in many ways.

As we explored various options, he mentioned the price of each service along with the prices of alternatives. In fact, prices were part of his language, same as with any service provider. As we left, the bill came. It was $65 for the entire treatment that day, which struck me as completely reasonable. Most importantly, it was fully transparent and open: fee for service and fee for goods.

In other words, it worked the same as any other normal market. There is no co-pay, no crazy federal programs funding my right to a worm-free dog, no vast subsidies or penalties, no schemes for redistribution and equality. There is private pet health insurance available for catastrophic things, but not regular maintenance, and hardly anyone goes for this stuff in any case. It wouldn’t make any sense. No employer is on the hook to cough up premiums for pet health insurance.

And guess what? Googleing around shows me that pet medical care prices are not beyond the normal inflation rate. There is no crisis, no frenzied attempt to over-medicate, no push to restrict services because that’s what the insurer wants, no vast distortions in the market, no waiting lines, no hysterical attempt to immunize the doctor from lawsuits, or anything else. It was as normal and predictable as going to the grocery store.

It strikes me that we have a pretty good model here for reforming human health care. Just treat us all like animals and the whole system would be largely repaired.”

Viception, the book I finished reading recently, covered healthcare: “Economic competition benefits buyers resulting in better cars, clothes, computers, and other things. Without nonconsensual initiatory aggression, good companies profit while bad companies do not, at least not as much. Competition and price-aware buyers help products become good. More competition and price-awareness would help medicine. For example, cosmetic and Lasik eye surgery prices are lower due to competition and price-awareness. Health insurance means the insured do not pay the full medical costs. Thus the insured demand the best and care less about cost. Buyers prefer surgery instead of drugs, even if the medical benefits are small. Buyers use every life-saving intervention despite costs and low benefits. Most people do not pay the full cost of their health insurance. In this country, the poor and the old get free or subsidized insurance via Medicaid or Medicare. Medicaid and Medicare helped raise healthcare costs because they subsidized healthcare usage. The more demand, ability and willingness to pay, that exists for anything allows its cost to rise. Health insurance hurts individual incentive to compare prices. What if you had gasoline insurance? Why would you care what gasoline’s price is since your insurance is paying for it? Health insurance should be for unpredictable, catastrophic events, not a pre-payment plan for routine care. Some homeowners have fire insurance, but usually not maintenance insurance. The fire insurance is for a catastrophic loss which is an unlikely, but costly event. Thus, fire insurance is affordable since the premiums paid by all the homeowners whose houses do not burn down pay for the homes that burn down. State governments require health insurance to cover routine physicals, mammograms, chiropractors, and hundreds of other procedures which raises costs. What is and is not insured should be determined by buyer preferences, not political lobbyists. Government healthcare, Medicare for example, is popular because people like getting free stuff, but Medicare is financially unsustainable. Medicare has low administrative costs while healthcare companies have higher administrative costs. How could the government be allegedly more efficient? The administrative costs are to prevent fraud. Government can lose money yearly, but healthcare companies cannot. They cannot tax, borrow, and print money to continue their business. If insurance companies accepted every sick applicant and never denied any claim, they would be out of business. Part of healthcare is taking care of oneself. Drinking too much alcohol, smoking, not exercising, unsafe driving and engaging in other unhealthy behaviors are choices that have costs. Unless the government is going to limit and monitor alcohol consumption, end smoking, have teams of exercise police to enforce mandatory exercise, and do other things to ensure people are healthy, then some people will remain less healthy. I believe everyone should make their own healthcare choices, not the government. One reason for rising healthcare costs in the United States is medical people practice defensive medicine: ordering excessive diagnostic tests primarily to avoid malpractice liability. To lower healthcare costs, end government interference. Allow health insurance purchases across state lines, raising competition. Allow drug imports. Abolish the drug-certifying Food and Drug Administration monopoly. The common problems with the Food and Drug Administration is that it approves a drug with little testing or it takes years to approve a drug. Private drug-certifying companies could exist. They would depend on their reputation. If they did a bad job, they likely would not continue to be funded, unlike the Food and Drug Administration. Legalize all drugs. End the state medical licensing monopoly. Private companies can provide certification. Monopoly licensing can restrict doctors from giving better advice. If a patient is stressed and depressed, maybe daily meditation can help, but that may not be government-approved whereas some drugs are. More healthcare liberty would allow different treatments, not just government-approved practices. This probably is not a complete list of ways to improve healthcare, but more liberty is the one-word solution.”

“Which countries have privatized healthcare like the United States?”

Considering that the US government pays more per person on healthcare than any other country’s government in the entire world, the US system certainly isn’t “privatized”. It’s a patchwork interventionist system. There are many other threads on healthcare that you should look at.

https://forum.freecapitalists.org/t/universal-healthcare/8066 <---- Here is one

My favorite links on the subject of health care are as follows:

http://mises.org/daily/3613 (comprehensive)

http://libertariannation.org/a/f12l3.html (Originally, government solved the health care crisis. The time was about 90 years ago, and the problem was health care costs were TOO LOW. Boy, did government solve this problem.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0tKl0J-S4 (Stefan Molyneaux two part power point series, the FDA stats starting at 14:20 are important)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124544505 (Modern day mutual aid societies)

Here’s a quick list of government interventions into the free marketplace.

  • Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, COBRA and all entitlements. (Also, price controls are in these programs, ruins pricing mechanism)

  • Intellectual Property (patents on drugs and devices; also leads to patenting of genes, GMO foods, etc.)

  • Licensing of doctors and devices (government transfers licensing power to AMA)

  • FDA drug testing (1962 law started the problems; see Mary Ruwart’s stats on the FDA in the youtube video by Stefan Molyneaux)

  • Rules preventing hospitals from being built (existing hospitals lobby to keep new hospitals out; laws are called “Con laws” http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/02/09/the-con-of-american-hospitals/). Most hospitals operated by government. (http://mises.org/daily/3586) Also, heavy regulation on the few private hospitals.

  • Regulations on insurance. No interstate or out-of-country competition! Insurers are required to cover various conditions no matter what. Etc. Doctors cannot come up with innovative insurance programs (lodge practice type things http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=6690656). Regulations that cause insurers to have to take sick people embed a social welfare program into a nominally private industry.

  • Government prohibition of organ markets. Thousands killed every year.

  • Emergency rooms have to take patients no matter what.

  • Tax system causes insurance to be embedded into employment system, rather than an individual purchase. (legacy of WW2 era wage controls)

I think Hong kong has the most privatized health care in the world. By the way, Israel is probably the Socialized country that isnt Communist in the world.

Sounds exactly like something the government would do. Another example is with gas prices.

Things “cost” the most in a system where you have private companies issuing the bills and the state paying them. It is just the way it is. (Has to do with incentive naturally.) Just think about all the extravaganza that went on in Iraq, with companies charging insane amounts of money for anything they did, or about the cost overruns in road construction (as a less extreme example).

Hong Kong and Singapore have the most free-market healthcare systems in the world, from what I understand. They’re consistently rated among the best health care systems in the world. No surprise to me.

Some basic info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Singapore

Everyone I know that has lived in both the US and in Ontario have told me that they get much better treatment and more accesibility in the US. I believe it.

Yeah I’ve also heard that a lot about the US vs. Ontario. But in that article, it stated:

Isn’t that kind of corporatist?