Help in buying silver coins

[John_James]

@caulds989

I work in insurance and we offer products that offer very modest internal rates of return in the form of cash values. While they are modest returns they are better than any CD as well as most mutual funds, IRAs, and 401k’s, and they beat out inflation as well.

That doesn’t make any sense. IRAs and 401k’s are simply investment shelters. You can invest in virtually anything through the vehicle of an IRA (401k’s tend to be more limited unless you yourself are the employer providing it…i.e. you’re self employed, but they still have a wide range of possible investments, regardless). Claiming rates of return on insurance products are better than most IRAs and 401k’s is like saying your paycheck is more profitable than your bank account.

Are you sure you even know what you’re talking about?

I use the above to illustrate the point that I know gold and silver are not as much investments as they are INSURANCE against total collapse of the fiat currency.

False. Precious metals like gold and silver are not insurance policies against a total collapse of a fiat currency. They are simply money. They are a store of value. They are a reliable way to save. That’s basically it. Again, I recommend you read the link I provided in the first post.

They are slightly investments in that the amount of gold or silver may rise and fall as more is mined (increasing the supply) or is used in consumer and producer goods (decreasing the supply), or consumer confidence, or even perceived consumer confidence, in the fiat currency changes . So, I am well aware that usually it is not the value of gold and silver that changes, but rather the value of the dollar it is compared to.

If you want to argue that, then you may as well just say savings = investment. As in, there is no difference…because you’re literally saying that whatever form you save your non-consumed productivity in, you are “investing” in that. As in, if I am a tanner, and I tan more hides than I sell, and I end up with a surplus that I accumulate for a “rainy day”, I would say I have some savings. You would say I’m “investing” in hides.

By the same token, if I earn a paycheck of US dollars every month, and I put a percentage of that away in a bank account, again according to you that means I’m “investing” in US dollars. I don’t have any “savings”. I have “investment”.

I suppose you can make up whatever definitions you want, but for most people, there is a difference between “saving” and “investing”. (Again, explained in that link).

I also give the above information on insurance as a little education to all of my fellow austrians that insurance might also be something you should consider “investing” in as part of your portfolio. Cash value life insurance is not just a way of providing income to your family after your death. It is also a way to shield your money from taxation and inflation.

There is a myriad of tax shelters.

And how in the world does a cash value payout protect from a devaluation of the currency in which it is denominated? That makes absolutely no sense.

I don’t know of anything that shields you from both inflation and taxation besides cash value life insurance.

Gold in an IRA shields you from both inflation and taxation. (This is just one example).

Gold and silver are great at virtually eliminating the long term risks of hyperinflation and inflation in general. But, because they are almost in no way an investment (no risk thus no reward), then in the short term it is impractical to put all your bones in gold and silver.

I’ve never heard of anyone suggesting putting all bones in any one asset class. In fact, not doing that is virtually the one thing everyone, from joe blow know-nothing, to billionaire investment gurus, to pump and dump stock scammers, agree on.

You need a way to keep access to some currency while also shielding it from inflation. For this we turn to investments.

That doesn’t make any sense.

An investment is a purchase of something that is supposed to generate income. (Again, as I said in the link, personally I differentiate purchasing something based on anticipated appreciation, deeming that “speculation”.)

Unless you are actually going to follow through with the logic I laid out above, and claim that simply saving something is “investing” in it, you cannot claim that “investing” allows you to “keep access to some currency”. In other words, the only way to “keep access to some currency” is to hold some currency.

If I have to rely on some other party to give me currency in exchange for something else I’m holding, then there is no real assurance of “access” to that currency. It sounds like your argument is that if things go bad and you need cash, you can always cash in your policy. Why is that so different than “cashing in” your gold, or your silver, or your CDs, or your leather hides?

I am trying to expand my network of clients, and so I naturally want to go to my warmest markets. I love austrian economics, I love austrian scholars, such as yourselves, and I love talking about austrian economics with austrian scholars. I feel like I can help them prepare for the worst in ways they may not have considered and I’ve waited till now, after having established myself on these forums more, to bring it up. If you are interested in learning a bit more, please private message me and we can talk on the phone. I am licensed to do business in all states, so your location (even out of the US) isn’t a very big problem. Unfortunately, due to contracts I have signed with my partner company, I cannot tell you over this forum which company I work for unless I am solicited by one of you asking for more info, but I can tell you it is one of the largest mutual companies out there. We took no bailout money of any kind. We have all of the highest financial ratings achievable among all of the ratings agencies, and, finally (I’m sure this will not surprise most of you), our reserves are several multiples of the amount the FDIC has on their books.

[…]

If for nothing else, contact me and learn about your options.

And there it is. This is borderline advertising (i.e. grounds for banning). And simply asking a few questions (and then never responding to the answer) is not exactly “establishing yourself” on the forum. And the fact that you bust out with this entire infomercial out of nowhere, and then actually offer that you were trying to “establish yourself” here before doing so, only leads one to believe this was a major part of your reason for joining all along.

Claim that you enjoy talking to Austrians all you want. Claim that you love Austrian econ and Austrian scholars till your heart’s content. But don’t come in here pretending to be asking for help and advice and then start lecturing the forum and soliciting business for yourself. In my view this is even worse than overt spammers.

On a separate matter,

You mean, on the matter of which you (apparently fraudulently) created this thread.

I have seen junk bags of silver before. What I wonder: in an apocolyptic setting where fiat money is totally worthless and people move to bartering or trading in commodities, would these junk coins be accepted? what I mean is, if it is a coin like say the silver eagle, americans could easily recognize this and know “yeah, this is probably legit silver” but with some other obscure coin might they say, “look, I’ve never seen this coin so how the hell am I supposed to know if it really is nearly pure silver?”

You’re suggesting that someone would recognize and accept a silver eagle (a coin they have very likely never seen before in their life), but they wouldn’t recognize and wouldn’t accept a dime minted before 1964? You may want to visit that precious metals basics link because once again, it doesn’t sound like you have any clue what you’re talking about.

…But then again, I’m not even so sure you were ever actually interested in talking silver in the first place.