What do you think I should vote when the system doesn’t allow me to vote the only libertarian party, and the other parties are either communist, social democrats or interested in just one major topic, like environment, christian values or throwing immigrants out the country?
What if I would otherwise buy the music or the book? You will maybe demur that it’s not their right to sell their products?
I agree, but it will stop them paying for it and financing the industry.
Do we need a government to step in such cases, or is it justified that private people take children from their parents when parents are not able to take care of their children properly?
The Mises institute gives away books for free online. Anyone can copy and print them, and distribute them. But the bookstore does excellent sales. Why? Because some people want to buy a copy of the book and support the Institute by doing so. If you want to buy it, because buying it adds some special utility that a copy will not, then so be it. But if you can copy it, and that is sufficient, then it doesn’t make sense to force you to pay for it in a particular form, and deny you the use of your own property to copy it for yourself.
Like I said, its a complex topic. Not beyond you, but not really Day 2 of libertarianism sort of stuff.
Not at all. They have a right to sell their product. They own their product. But they cannot own what is in your mind, or what you do with your property. The limits of their ownership starts with their property, and ends with their property. Your property is yours to do with as you please.
Then you don’t know Norway.
You were a socialist 2 years ago?
That is called prohibition. They tried it with alcohol, and things got so violent, and the liquor became so dangerously potent, that it took a lot of lives and destroyed a lot of property. So they ended it.
Today, there is a prohibition against drugs, but it is mostly a prohibition against marijuana. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are in jail for pot possession or personal use (victimless crimes), and the drug war is a bigger failure than ever. Once again, prohibition has failed.
Think about what would happen if people cracked down even further on child porn? It becomes even more expensive (because there is a premium for the risk of getting in trouble with the law) and it becomes scarcer, so it also becomes more expensive, and those high profits attract the sort of criminal people who would kidnap kids and force them to perform in child porn and maybe even hurt them.
This is a big part of libertarianism. Considering what is seen (locking people up and stopping them from buying the stuff) and the unseen (the higher profits attract more dangerous and desperate people). There is an opportunity cost whenever you intervene in the market.
If you do some research into CPS the government is notorious for putting kids into institutions where they are abused badly. The worst thing to happen to a child in many cases, is to be stolen away by the CPS. You can google up on this.
When parents were not able to take care fo their children 100 years ago (or earlier) what was done? Relatives and neighbors stepped in. The church stepped in. Employers and friendly societies stepped in. There will always be crappy parents, but once the state gets involved, it crowds out the people who have a compassionate interest in the children, and leaves the kids in a system that is very evil (in my opinion).
Of course. It’s called competition.
I mean our views here are extreme.
I was apolitical most of my life. I just accepted things the way they were. I never thought about government. I only started questioning taxation when I started making a proper living. Then I realized what a ripoff the government was when you were a middle class individual working your butt off to get ahead. 2 years ago, I was a non-voting minarchist. I had given up on my vote counting. Then I found Ron Paul while doing some research for work. And I started listening to him. And he blew my mind. And 8 months later, I landed here. And now I am the biggest radical anarchist you will find on these forums. Not the most intelligent or educated, but one of the most passionate.
That makes sense. Copying a book is not wrong. But how about selling the copies I make?
Making child porn should be illegal. Buying it should not. Correct?
It is your labour and your property you are selling.
A copyright is merely a right to license your work. But who has written a book, that hasn’t been influenced by the work in other books, or used language in the form of words and phrases that other people came up with first?
Making any porn without consent is not cool. Now the problem with child porn is, who is capable of giving consent? I don’t claim to have the answer to those questions.
It depends on how the porn was acquired. Again, if it was acquired with consent then it can’t be an issue. We’re back to the consent issue.
I really don’t want to talk about child porn and IP all night.
I think I’m starting to get a grip of libertarianism now. You have proviided some excellent answers to my questions. I’ll keep challenging others. Your haven’t wasted your time. Even if I think the world is heading in the wrong direction and it’s probably too late to stop a global fascist state.
I know. You’ve been inquisitive and skeptical, but not reactionary and close minded. Plus, it is good to explain these things carefully, so I can refine my own ideas and understanding.
But don’t let it eat you up. The world is a tough place where might makes right and most people don’t care.
The way to improve the world, is to improve our own understanding first. When we understand things, then we can confidently share them with others. The future is not written in stone.
The funny thing is that even the fact that my views are extreme is being used against me. As if being extreme is wrong itself. Just follow the herd..
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Do you want private police, armies, courts etc? Don’t we need a government to take care of some infrastructure and maintainance?
Is Ron Paul an anarchist?
Yes. No.
Ron Paul is a lovely gentleman, who puts on a suit and goes to Washington and plays politics with all of the other people who put on suits and play politics. The difference is, he knows he is an actor in a comic tragedy. The rest of them actually think it is real.
To be more precise, Ron Paul is an anarchist at heart, who plays a constitutional minarchist on TV.
So you wouldn’t even oblige if I made paperback copies of your books and sold them? This will allow publishing houses to copy any book they want and make money of it, and the author risks not making a cent.
Sure, but the author still has to write the book first, correct? The publishing houses will have to provide some value to the author, or he will not write.
And the publishing houses will not collect so much per book, because all of the publishing houses can produce it and so they are only competing on who can produce it cheapest.
But really, the author can make a living selling the books himself, by signing autographed copies, by adding value. This old model, of having a license to produce a song or book in perpetuity is coming to an end. Now musicians and authors release work for free, and use that to promote their careers over the careers of the more corporate artists. This is competition. Since we had the digital CD burner, we have MORE movies, MORE books, and MORE music. So something is happening with creation, and the price to create, and the incentive to create, that has not reduced output, but rather increased it!
Competing polices, armies and courts…sounds crazy. How would that work out? Who should choose which court to use? The culprit or the insulted? And how do you make profit from cleaning streets, fighting fires etc
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Is that your gut feeling, or do you have any references on that?
Apologies… I thought you were - laminustacitus.