The reason why I never seem to be able to subscribe to an ideology is that it always has something that I completely disagree with. Like for instance-- the libertarians believe that the free market would hurt companies that discriminate against people. But that hasn’t stopped companies from doing well in the past. And, I am all for small government, I am not a statist, but I am also a believer in our constitution and I think our constitution should protect people of other races, colors, and genders… but I don’t understand why anyone would rationally think that unless we used the mass media to brainwash the population how anyone would think that racism would go away if we let the free market decide things. Is there a more civil rights libertarian view of thought that I am missing here?
Racism is a personally-held bias held by individuals. There is nothing in the libertarian tradition that prohibits such a bias. However, those in business who discriminate against others are likely to lose market share because of their discrimination.
In short, libertarians tolerate racist beliefs, but racists are likely to incur losses in the free market if they act on their bias.
is racism a crime or something ugly?
Our government, media, schools, etc. all have been telling us for many years that racism is bad. We just elected a black president in the US. But guess what? No matter what, there will always, always, be someone who is racist, sexist, or somehow discriminatory. A free market, nor a socialist state, wouldn’t change this. A free market, however, recognizes that everyone has a right to free association. If someone doesn’t want employees of another race or religion, he has the right to not hire them. He is never forced to violate his principles, however twisted they may be.
Government coercion does nothing to alleviate his hatred. In fact, it may make it worse; now the other race is privileged. It breeds race warfare, where races compete for the government trough, just like good ol’ class warfare. Only the power of the state can force institutional racism. How many Southern businesses wanted segregation to end so that they could get more customers? Probably a good many. Yet the power of the state stood in their way.
I see. That makes more sense. I just think that in the past companies were racist but it didn’t hurt them when they were racist. Groups like the KKK gained more power when racism was accepted by everyone. And yes, I think racism is pretty ugly, but I would rather people restrain themselves from being racist. I for one disagree, that racism is a natural tendency, I am not racist, and I haven’t ever been racist… but I just think that this whole conservative movement to go back towards allowing racism was a reaction to the civil rights movement in the 60s.
I see, but I think that open racism is worse.
I don’t really believe that if we got rid of discrimination laws that everything would go away.
Yeah, and in the past the free market was corrupted (as well as presently) with blacks slaving out in the plantation, so, in what free market was the State not involved that you are referring to specifically? It would help if you provided historical context.
I don’t know of any “conservative movement” that strives for racism.
Libertarians believe in freedom and justice. Freedom means being able to think and do whatevery you want, so long as you do not aggress against the freedom of another individual. That means an individual is free to be as racist as he or she wants. While many people are morally opposed to racism, me included, if an individual isn’t free to think and speak racist things then he isn’t truly free.
hmmm, you know the KKK used the State to push their agenda. So how does this fit into a libertarian philosophy?
as a tried to hint, you should decide whether racism is something that you dont like because
a)its a crime
or
b)its ugly and offends you
or
c) theres another reason that I cant think of but maybe you might.
I’ve read things where people said that conservatives thought that the civil rights movement was a mistake so they wanted to go back to it. I guess that people can speak their mind about racism but I just think that people should restrain themselves from denying opportunities to other people who are minorities. It just is morally wrong. But I agree with most of other libertarian views. But not to all of them. It’s just things like this that I disagree with.
Racism divides people. It’s a better idea even if you can to not talk about racism in public because it’ll offend people. It’s like me saying I don’t like you because your hair is color blond so I hate all blond people.
well as soon as you acknowledge that its not a crime, you see how evil it would be to criminally prosecute people for it, i.e. to have laws about it. etc. so maybe you re libertarian after all.
If I understand correctly, you are saying that people should not be allowed to speak or think racist things? Or perhaps exclude people they dislike from voluntary agreements?
To help me understand better, can you list several hypothetical examples of racism “denying opportunities to other people who are minorities?”
It may be a good idea to not talk about it in public, but it is never a good idea to give those in power the authority to squash your speech and beliefs, no matter how twisted, because it offends people. I personally look down on racism, but I would never advocate forcing these people through the law to go against their beliefs.
As does any preference. The ultimate questions are:
1: How do you determine when someone’s discriminating.
2: If you have done so, how can you ethically MAKE them stop?
3: Even if you do stop them, will this end their racism, or simply strenghten it?
A conservative is not a libertarian. So I don’t know why you brought this up.
Ok. Big difference between moral and law. What is moral is between you and your God or what have you or you and your conscience (might be easier to digest for some). Law is what somebody in this thread already stated to you, which has to do with violation of property rights. Now if you need to know what property rights are… I don’t want to keep explaining events you already might know.
Why are you lumping conservative with libertarian? Do you even know what a libertarian is?
I guess I see your point. The power shouldn’t rest in the hands of the state to decide things. But I don’t want to see a return to the old era of racism in the past. Yeah, you’re right about how it would be bad to ban the discussion of race completely.
But, I just am opposed to the idea of open racism against one another. But I guess we shouldn’t make laws about it. I just wish there was a way we could do without racism laws and still be a tolerant society.
Does anybody remember the movie Demolition Man?
BEEP John Spartan you are fined 1 credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute
I do know what a libertarian is. I recently read For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto. I know what property rights are… I’m just saying that I would be sad if people went back to the way we were before.
Like I said, I pretty much agree with most libertarian views (no I’m not lumping them together). But it’s just a fe wthat I disagree with or have different views on.