I think am actually rethinking my feelings on secondary education

Economics Political Theory
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I never really heard the other side of the opinion until I came here. Other then that, I haven’t really met anyone who doesn’t think they can do what they want without going through College.

I was just talking to my friend who is concerned about not getting to do what she wants with her life, which is Teach. She said she has no motivation whatsoever to go to College. I recommended that she join the FATA(Future Teachers of America Association) an organization of future educators, and get hands on experience with volunteer tutoring. I am starting to feel how worthless College is, not only am I spending other people’s money, but I am not learning anything I could learn on my own and feel dragged down by Gen. Ed requirements.

She finally said, the only reason she isn’t taking my advice, is because of the state laws requiring you to have a Master’s Degree in order to teach. There is a new State Law here in CT that requires you to have a Master’s Degree after 5 years of teaching in order to keep your job. Teaching careers are also restricted with Licensing laws. Fucking bullshit man, this annoys the shit out of me so much. Poverty is natrual, as Rothbard has said, but would have no bearing on your entire life if it wasn’t for the State restricting the supply of trade.

Additionally, once you DO have the License, teachers are subjected to LOTS of regulation, and mandates. The federal mandates in schooling reduce teacher’s wages, further discouraging the profession. Even if someone can get past that, they are constantly regulated on how they teach. Instead of being able to do what they want, they have to follow state cirriculums and are subject to constant speculation by the state where they could then lose their jobs. I could go on about this, but the regulation in Education is absolutely ridiculous, and the Obama Administration wants to regulate it even further to “raise the bar” by increasing school hours, and requiring community service.

I enjoyed High School, and most of my classes, but honestly I think College is just more work and less of an education then High School =\

So far, the only think I still think its good for is social networking. You can meet pretty girls without having to browse Facebook or Myspace.

I’m not even sure what I want to do right now, with my life. I’m interested in Science, is there anyway I can get my hands on research and volunteering requiring as little schooling as possible? I think I would eventually need to improve my math skills though if I want to get serious with it..

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There’s a difference between getting educated and being taught how to function like the simian lever-puller you were deigned to be.

I’m picking up what you’re laying down.

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Don’t insult users until you know the majority of the feelings on education here. You just joined Mises from what i can tell.

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I can’t speak for other industries but in engineering experience trumps college degree’s.

Also if your friend wants to teach have her consider teaching outside of the US. I know that may not be an option but it’s much more exciting.

I feel like the state is trying to do to teachers what they’ve done to doctors.

Also the value of a degree is heavily devalued and diluted. College degrees are a dime a dozen and they no longer represent the technical expertise as they once did. Secondary education has bubbled just like real-estate. Unlike real estate though you cannot foreclose on an education and loose it. You can foreclose on the loan but not magically forget anything you’ve learned.

I think in a way the degraded quality of secondary schooling can still stem back to the recent business cycle we are going through. The demand for secondary education has grown immensely. Universities have no intensive to improve their campus’s and programs.

Until interest rates rise and people stop going to secondary schools universities have no motivation to improve their programs or campus’s. They know that people leave public schools with a cultural belief that they must get a secondary degree to be successful and they also know that no lender will turn down new students needing financial aid. They don’t need to improve their quality to attract new students, they just need to keep those interest rates low!

I however work with several very intelligent people who skipped the whole college thing. Ironically all of my older “College degree” technician’s are farther down the latter than my T3 techs without a formal education.

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From all accounts you seem to be right but can somone tell me why the market seems to require a degree to do any sort of major job?

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Its an awesome option. I grew up overseas going to international schools. The students are so much better because they don’t have crappy american culture and they are paying to go to school.

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I think it just has to do with intelligence. Business’ need a way to sort out the more intelligent people to work jobs like service desk. I think a degree is equal to presenting good communication skills in an interview as well as a diverse resume of volunteering, travelling, and activities. I think any diverse resume of the latter is much more rewarding, and equal to a degree.

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On the contrary, why the fuck is the U.S so damn competitive with Education? Its like a contest as to which parent’s special kid has the better grades, and can get into the nearest ivy league school with other rich kids. I think its pretty stupid, and it screws people out of learning endaevors who don’t have over-the-top grades. Because for some reason in America, Good Grades = Intelligence.

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Duuuuude, I’m agreeing with you. What I’m implying is that when you get a conventional education in a post-secondary institution you’re being fed the more or less conventional view along with all the prepackaged and “distilled” information meant to support it. The purpose of everything leading up to that, the purpose of institutionalized education, is and has always been to turn people into tools. It should be no surprise that the purpose of the universities and colleges has evolved from an education involving honest, critical thought to an “education” constructed around the need for people to perform specific preordained tasks. The mentality took root in the Industrial Revolution when the division of labour truly came into its own. Consequently, the immense amount of wealth that was being produced gave people strong, unfortunate incentive to conform to this process and learn a set of repetitive tasks of varying complexity. This is the same kind of thinking that gave us the practice of using formulas and curves to describe human beings and made us into the most versatile type of commodity, little more than trained apes capable of pulling levers and pushing buttons (or in the case of modern economics; calculating statistics.)

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My opinion is that:

A) High School education is nearly worthless, thanks to the government

B) Many jobs these days are government jobs.

C) The government creates artificial scarcity in jobs by regulating, taxing, imposing minimum wages, etc. So an employer who has 10 spots to fill and 20 applicants, might as well discriminate based on a degree.

D) So many American jobs which might be viewed as ‘blue collar’; jobs where hard work and experience will trump a useless degree, have been moved overseas thanks to unions and various regulations.

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sigh, there is nothing that will change this. Its so sad.

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So is the solution to find work outside the U.S?

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DFB, I gathered from your other threads that things seem bleak for you. But IMO you’re in an enviable position. I’m assuming you’re 18, 19? I would have given anything to be aware of the stuff being discussed here on these forums when I was that age. I did what was expected of me and I sorely regret it. My parents pushed me into going to college. Finished my undergrad. Went to grad school, finished that, and now I’m saddled with two useless economics degrees and a boatload of debt. I’m a decade older than you. In a way, it’s too late for me. My options are limited. I should have learned a trade or gone into the sciences. I had a strong interest in astronomy when I first started college. I wanted to be an astronomer. But my parents and everyone around me said that was impractical. “You can’t make money being an astronomer.”, ect. I relented and majored in something more “practical” and now I regret it.

You’re young. You have the world before you, and many, many options if you know where to look.

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Why do you gather that things seem bleak for me? I think I am lucky to have been exposed to all of this, I feel that I am part of a new generation, inspired by Ron Paul. Given the long life I have ahead of me, there is a lot I can offer to change the way things are when I am older. If at my age, I can learn this much about “the truth”.

And not being able to make money as an Astronomer? are you kidding me? Astronomers make A LOT OF money, and are responsible for the development of important technology. Technology in the field is often transferred to others. Astrophysicists develop telescopes to be able to see further into space, and this technology is moved into other fields such as Optics. The most powerful telescope later became the model for a new lense on Cameras.

And, to be honest, I don’t think you need a College education for Science. I’m not sure yet, but I think you can become as equally smart by reading a lot of books on Astronomy, and participating in volunteer research. There are Essay/Scientifical research contests that go around, where you do your own research and submit it. They are also research organizations you can volunteer at as a free-worker to really get your hands on in the field.

But I dont know, its a very math heavy field, requiring Calculus.

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I’m only staying in College until I know what I want to do.

On the contrary, does anyone know where to start a career in computer repair/computer science? I mean without a College degree, what is the best way to start to build up skills in computer repair and/or programming and maybe even eventually start your own Business in repairing computers?

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Don’t do computer repair. You won’t make any money and there is no future unless you go into management.

If you want to go into IT getting your college degree is a waste of time. If you don’t want to do software design go into networking and integration work. Get your CCNA and a whole world of opportunity will open up to you.

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I can’t remember the details but unemployment in IT for 2009 was like 2-4%.

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What if I DO want to go into software design?

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How do you get a CCNA?

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IMO I feel like the market is saturated but I live in Seattle so it may just be the surrounding. I have a cousin whos a software developer who works as a consultant and makes big bucks. The nice thing about software design is your skill and track record can take you a long ways. If you want to wow prospective clients just make something cool.

IMO it’s also alot of fun. Not only is it very logical but you can really poor in your own personal creativity into whatever you make.

Get some books from the local book store and study. You can take the test at any test center. It’s like 100 bucks a try.