Then do we agree the Charles Manson should be freed on all counts? After all he has comitted no actual murder (from what i’ve read) only inciting to murder which he was charged based on the “joint-responsibility rule”
From Wikipedia
Charles Milles Manson (born November 12, 1934) is an American criminal who led what became known as the Manson Family, a quasi-commune that arose in California in the late 1960s he was found guilty of conspiracy to commit the Tate/LaBianca murders, carried out by members of the group at his instruction. He was convicted of the murders through the joint-responsibility rule, which makes each member of a conspiracy guilty of crimes his fellow conspirators commit in furtherance of the conspiracy’s object.
Manson is associated with “Helter Skelter”, the term he took from the Beatles song of that name and construed as an apocalyptic race war the murders were putatively intended to precipitate. This connection with rock music linked him, from the beginning of his notoriety, with pop culture, in which he became an emblem of insanity, violence, and the macabre. Ultimately, the term was used as the title of the book prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi wrote about the Manson murders.
At the time the Family began to form, Manson was an unemployed ex-convict who had spent half his life in correctional institutions for a variety of offenses. In the period before the murders, he was a singer-songwriter on the distant fringe of the Los Angeles music industry, chiefly through a chance association with a member of The Beach Boys, Dennis Wilson. After Manson was charged with the crimes, recordings of songs written and performed by him were released commercially. Artists including Guns N’ Roses and Marilyn Manson have covered his songs in the decades since.
Manson’s death sentence was automatically commuted to life imprisonment when a 1972 decision by the Supreme Court of California temporarily eliminated the state’s death penalty. California’s eventual reestablishment of capital punishment did not affect Manson, who is an inmate at Corcoran State Prison.
I don’t think the two are on the same level. If Manson merely stirred up feelings in his followers and that led them to commit the crimes sure. However, he played a much larger more direct role than that.
Not everyone, I do not agree that inciting a riot is not a crime (I assume the rioters damaged property or persons). If I charge people up into a frenzy and they destroy property or worse then I am partly responsible for their actions. This is same as if I steal money to equip an army and then go out and kill thousands of people in Iraq then I am partly responsible there also.
Now if you have a situation where I am accused of causing a riot and the person doing the damage on my cause was found not guilty then I am not guilty.
Would anyone agree that there is at difference in degree between the actions of Mason and his followers? Because he and the three others were sentenced to death-- later to be changed to life in prison
The first string of murders was committed by order of Manson but without his actual presence.
The second string of murders, Manson was present, pointed a gun and used a knife to cut a persons ear but did not stab or kill (as testified by himself and three others)
He wasn’t convicted for inciting a riot. He was found guilty of the Tate/Bianca murders themselves under the joint responsibility rule of conspiracy to murder.
Also, based on Brandenburg v Ohio, advocating imminent lawless action is not a form of protected speech, so inciting a riot would also be illegal.
He wasn’t convicted for inciting a riot. He was found guilty of the Tate/Bianca murders themselves under the joint responsibility rule of conspiracy to murder.
Also, based on Brandenburg v Ohio, advocating imminent lawless action is not a form of protected speech, so inciting a riot would also be illegal.
I know. My use of riot was to point out an application of inciting used by Rothbard. My quibble is did Manson merely incite murders thus freeing him under the Rothbardian application.
Then do we agree the Charles Manson should be freed on all counts? After all he has comitted no actual murder (from what i’ve read) only inciting to murder which he was charged based on the “joint-responsibility rule”
It would help if you define what you mean by ‘inciting’ murder. Manson directly ordered the deaths his ‘family’ commited, and even tied up Sharron Tate for his followers to kill. I’d say thats a bit more than ‘inciting’ his followers to murder.
By your logic Hitler isnt guilty of the deaths of 6 million Jews, because he didnt physically carry out most of the mass executions(he just ordered it to be done).