In Search of Utopia

http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2005_05/maccallum-utopia.html

I personally believe that such an Atlantis suceeding would prove nothing in the world’s eyes, that it would be more of a target of jokes than an example for a society, and I would personally never join one.

You missed the point entirely.

Maybe. So what? The point is not to prove to other that liberty works, but to live free.

And as liberty works, well, in the end it could turn into the model of society of the future.

Why?

Very interesting stuff by the way, that the kind of things I’d consider to join

I believe this article is not limited to the one point you say that I have missed, otherwise over half of it could have been edited away. Nevertheless, it still does not depreciate the value of my own opinions on this matter.

Because its a silly concept, abandoning all that I have worked on in the society that I am in to live in a supposed libertarian paradise in a portion of the world stricken by poverty - I actually like living in a globalized, industrial nation even though I must endure the abuse of liberty that governments around me commit.

No bullshit taxation and better government services is a good thing. Plus we can trade with the local for food and materials. You get rich faster(and everyone else) if you know what you’re doing.

until you get attacked by jealous neighbors. I don’t trust a few defense agencies made up of paid soldiers to protect me against people whipped into an ideological frenzy by a smooth talker.

isn’t that the format of most wars?

Certainly is.

The quality, and quantity of these foods and materials would most likely be far below what I could get in a globalized, industrial society even after taxation.

I highly doubt that.

So, a small number of people own all the real estate, and everyone else is a tenant, and the property owners make the rules, and the tenants obey. The property owners’ respect for the freedoms of the tenants is trusted to their reasonableness and their commitment to the profit motive. Is that right?

If so, then how precisely does this libertarian utopia differ from feudalism?

Well, I guess it’s a good thing the Founding Fathers didn’t think like you.

For starter, The notion of properties implies the possibility to buy and be “your own king”, if you don’t trust this system of micro-government.

And the information technology and all the mode of transport that didn’t exist back in the time of feudalism bring a real competition.

Anyway, it’s anarchy, there can and will be a lot a model tried.

Precisely. I can’t believe people are still obsessed with divvying up the land on this mudball, when our future, and the capacity to homestead almost infinite spaces, lies in the heavens.

@Giles, shorter quote next time. If you provide a source link, there is no need to copy the entire work. Makes for a lot of scrolling.

I’m not sure it’s obvious that one is one’s own king if one spends one’s life paying rent. If the majority of people are in that position, while a minority own all the real estate, and, on the basis of that ownership, make the rules, it seems to me pretty clear who the kings are. If the landlords are inclined to reasonableness, this might not be a problem, but there’s nothing in the system spelled out at the top that I can see being an effective prophylactic against an unreasonable landlord becoming a tyrant.

We’re talking about an environment where the roads are privately owned and maintained for profit. In the case of “Orbis”, we’re talking about a place where the very air is owned and maintained privately for profit. For the majority of the population, there’s no escape from paying rent.

As for information technology, how does that help? It competes with workers and deskills jobs.

It’s not an anarchy - it’s an oligarchy, and one that is almost totally without any checks or balances.

It’s manoralism of which, fuedalism is the coercive enforcement.

It’s the market - the ultimate form of checks and balances.

Giles, have you been keeping up with the private Catholic community in Florida? I think it’s called Ava Maria or something to that effect. I’m not necessarily against deed restricted communities, but I think the long term success of any set of anarchistic communities will not be found in neo-feudalism (as our enemies are utilizing their own brand of it). Rather, I believe a fundamental universal convenant from which a contract complex will be the future of humankind. Imagine a simple set of rules for which all contracts are tied to it and most conform to it either directly as reference or indirectly as consequence of referencing existant contracts that are referencing it. And that such contracts will be formed and cease to exist purely in an electronic sphere. From this, I think you’ll find communities like the ones you seek will arise, but that also other communities will arise in parallel, but not in conflict either.

Yeah, because the founding fathers all decided to go West and found a colony anew in Nebraska dedicated to their principles rather than fighting against tyranny in their own society where they were.

The market is no such thing – at least, not in the scenario painted in the above so-called “utopia”. In an oligarchy such as that described, wherein all real estate is owned by a few, while the majority must pay rent merely to live, there is nothing in the nature of markets that can defend propertyless should the oligarchs turn tyrannical. If you think there is, then I would like to see you explain how.

It’s no different to capitalists owning the majority of the capital. If that situation arises absent coercion it is because it is efficient from the point of view of the consumer. Use whatever terms you will to scare people, it doesn’t change the fact that if the situation were to arise it would be because it is economic. And if you don’t like it, buy them out.