I love how you always do this. From now on I will refer to pasteurized milk as “pasteurized milk (non-infected)”, and civilization as "civilization (non-boneheadedtechnophobia)
Pray tell, do you test all your water sources for giardia, and naturally high levels of lead and arsenic?
“Logically speaking we know our civ won’t last.”
That cannot be determined a priori, this requires knowledge of empirical observation and a gained understanding of human action.
“Look at how the state keeps monopolizing natural resources AND cages anyone who tries to live sustainably.”
That has nothing to do with how long civilization will last. Indeed this could well last longer than in a market state of affairs within the current system, due to the large scale environmentalism of our day. Civilization might not last well under such circumstances, but it will certainly last.
“Tragedy of the commons combined with criminalizing living naturally AND mass subsidies to big ag AND the dumbing down of children through gov schools AND poison in food/medicine and tech (like cancer phones) will kill us.”
Most importantly, however, you have not justified one iota of what was in your original post. Statism can only exist within civilization in the same way that cancer can only exist in a body. Indeed this is a good analogy for what you are doing:
It is well known that having legs allows legs to be in a position where legs can break. This causes a great deal of discomfort and means that the individual in inhibited because he is trapped within a cast for months, which restricts his motion. Therefore, the only logical thing to do is to amputate everyone’s legs forthwith.
Furthermore, the fact is that if everyone followed your advice and civilization ended, then man would likely fall into a state of barbarism. You wouldn’t live well, you’d likely be raided and killed. Indeed only those who survived would be those who cooperated and formed large social groups, during which time they’d probably find it advantageous to cooperate to produce goods, and produce items which improve the quality of their lives, E.G civilization.
The fact is that the overwhelming majority of people benefit from advanced civilization and society. I, and most people on earth, would rather live in a heavily statist society, than a solitary and primitive lifestyle. The only way that your method makes sense is if it is acknowledged as either A: A personal system because YOU like living on your own, in which case you have not answered the question WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? Or B: A personal system suggested as an alternative of a heavily totalitarian state, which would be an answer to the question WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE? Or finally C: A social system to lead to the downfall of statism, shortly followed by the reformation into a more libertarian civilization. Any of these would, however, not explain the inherent correlation between civilization and statism/violence, or why people are inherently better living in primitive isolation, which would appear to be some of your major theses.
Tide goes in, tide goes out. I don’t know how you intend to explain that.
This made me crack up. I mean back when I was 18 I got a kick out of imagining myself in the nuclear apocolypse or a zombie outbreak, and how it would be so cool to try and survive that situation. You wouldn’t have to go to work or school, and all your neat survival skills would get you the girl, etc. Then you get older and realize that you are not a unique snowflake and would likely die of starvation, assault, or the initial catastrophe, and that if you did survive life would SUCK after the novelty of it all wore off.
- and non-fluoridated (non-poisoned) water
I love how you always do this. From now on I will refer to pasteurized milk as “pasteurized milk (non-infected)”, and civilization as "civilization (non-boneheadedtechnophobia)
Pray tell, do you test all your water sources for giardia, and naturally high levels of lead and arsenic?
Ever been to Natural News or FoodFreedom? You will never look at food the same way when you realize 99% of the food sold in stores is poisoned.
“Logically speaking we know our civ won’t last.”
That cannot be determined a priori, this requires knowledge of empirical observation and a gained understanding of human action.
How can you rely on empirical evidence? Life is way too complex. As an austrian you should know this. And if you want empirical data all you need to know is that every other single civ in history has collapsed and the only ones which haven’t have sustained themselves through VIOLENCE.
“Look at how the state keeps monopolizing natural resources AND cages anyone who tries to live sustainably.”
That has nothing to do with how long civilization will last. Indeed this could well last longer than in a market state of affairs within the current system, due to the large scale environmentalism of our day. Civilization might not last well under such circumstances, but it will certainly last.
No it won’t. How can it?
WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?
Why do you think?
Please define a posion. Please note that “has a multi-syllabic chemical name that I don’t understand as an ingredient” doesn’t mean “posioned”.
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/
Poison= causes cancer, mental illness or some other weakness.
By that logic water and sunlight are posion. You’re forgetting one key factor. I’ll let you figure that out.
Your missing the point. The poison in our food is mostly unnatural. That’s what makes it cancer/autism causing. Read Natural News.
First off, you still didn’t properly define a posion. Secondly, please explain to me, in moderate detail, how cancer cells form. You’re demonstrating a profound ignorance about basic medical information and I want to make sure I’m mistaken about that ignorance before proceeding.
How can you rely on empirical evidence? Life is way too complex. As an austrian you should know this. And if you want empirical data all you need to know is that every other single civ in history has collapsed and the only ones which haven’t have sustained themselves through VIOLENCE
Logic can’t predict thee future, period. If it could, everyone would want to be a logician, and all the previous logicians woud be filthy rich.As far as civ’s collapsing - civilization hasn’t really ever collapsed, in fact on a whole it has grown. If you are saying the Assyrians were replaced by Babylonians, etc - sure whatever - different govt’s and actions inheret different civs or evolve in different ways, no big deal
Claiming that industrial civ hasn’t collapsed yet doesn’t mean it won’t collapse in the future
Obviously, I already stated logic can’t predict jack as far as the future is concrned - that’s my main point…you ask the impossible and nonsensical
“How can you rely on empirical evidence? Life is way too complex”
Because the factors of civilization, not the nature of civilization, determine whether or not it cannot last. We can determine things based upon our understanding of man, but the nature of civilization itself cannot determine whether or not it is destined to collapse soon. This depends upon the exact factors of our day in conjunction with deductive reasoning NOT SIMPLE LOGIC.
“As an austrian you should know this.”
As an Austrian I make damn sure that I understand exactly how to come to appropriate conclusions using both a priori and a posteriori reasoning. I don’t assume that simply one or the other can solve all solutions. You are alive today because man is capable of using both of them properly, not because man decided to use “entirely a priori reasoning” and thusly starved to death while trying to eat rocks.
“And if you want empirical data all you need to know is that every other single civ in history has collapsed and the only ones which haven’t have sustained themselves through VIOLENCE.”
All men are destined to die, I guess we should just kill ourselves and get it over with. And what part of the fact that 99.99 percent of all human beings are better off in a statist society over isolation don’t you get?
“No it won’t. How can it?”
By working together within an integrated market system consistently interfered with by government intervention as well as a large variety of other forms of human cooperation, all of which make use of man’s resources to the best of his abilities.
“Why do you think?”
Theory 1: You’re too weak to actually put your words into action and so you find it easier to identify yourself as a “survivalist” who knows better than anyone else and so will be the smart one laughing outside of the smoldering anthill when things go to hell, while still being able to enjoy all of the wonders that result from human cooperation and civilization. This both gives a hobby, increases your self esteem level, and allows you to look down upon others, without the dirty business of living out in the woods and dying alone at age 50 after you start getting arthritic pains or break your arm, both of which act as death sentences.
Theory 2:
Claiming that industrial civ hasn’t collapsed yet doesn’t mean it won’t collapse in the future
Obviously, I already stated logic can’t predict jack as far as the future is concrned - that’s my main point…you ask the impossible and nonsensical
“How can you rely on empirical evidence? Life is way too complex”
Because the factors of civilization, not the nature of civilization, determine whether or not it cannot last. We can determine things based upon our understanding of man, but the nature of civilization itself cannot determine whether or not it is destined to collapse soon. This depends upon the exact factors of our day in conjunction with deductive reasoning NOT SIMPLE LOGIC.
All civ’s are inherently unsustainable. EVERY OTHER civ has collapsed. Understand? Nothing people can do can change this.
Theory 1: You’re too weak to actually put your words into action and so you find it easier to identify yourself as a “survivalist” who knows better than anyone else and so will be the smart one laughing outside of the smoldering anthill when things go to hell, while still being able to enjoy all of the wonders that result from human cooperation and civilization. This both gives a hobby, increases your self esteem level, and allows you to look down upon others, without the dirty business of living out in the woods and dying alone at age 50 after you start getting arthritic pains or break your arm, both of which act as death sentences.
Skill-wise I should be ready to leave shortly. But I also need to homestead enough land up in the woods of NH to sustain myself.
I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate that every other civ has collapsed. If civilization is defined as agriculture+state+violence, then obviously these factors have remained a constant presence for a few thousand years now and therefore civiliation has never collapsed since it’s inception. The only thing that has changed is the state. Violence has stayed, agriculture has stayed.
“All civ’s are inherently unsustainable.”
Only in name. Most actual civilizations have been consistently in existence without much interruption, especially since the advent of the industrial revolution. I think you’re getting mixed up between the existence of states and the existence of civilization. Only a handful of civilizations have ever actually been eradicated, states have come and gone but civilization has almost always remained. Name the most famous civilizations in our day, China, Japan, France, England, Egypt, hell, you can point to almost every civilization in existence today outside of the Americas and you can then trace those civilizations back at least 5,000 years. So it would seem that empirical evidence is on my side, as the vast majority of significant civilizations that you can actually argue were wiped out or totally collapsed were in America surrounding imperialist expansion, and you don’t seem worried about alien invaders.
Plenty of states have gone in and out of existence but society and civilization has almost always remained. As an Austrian, I would have thought you would have been able to tell the difference.
And you still haven’t refuted the fact that practically everyone who ever lived has been enriched by civilization, including yourself. I also find it amusing how you point to the fact that modern foods are unhealthy for you, when people live longer now than they ever have before.
" EVERY OTHER civ has collapsed. Understand?"
No they haven’t.
“Skill-wise I should be ready to leave shortly. But I also need to homestead enough land up in the woods of NH to sustain myself.”
That’s good. I wish you luck.
I already pointed that out neo, using verification - and assuming his term civ means anything worth a damn, logic (which is his criterea I guess)
Maybe you spelling it out more will help show how wrong his assumptions are (ex: we don’t care about an Assyrian govt being replaced by a Babylonian one, etc) - thouugh I doubt it.
Also, as far as I am involved in this conversation - which may not be much longer - I will not accept a video, link, or quote as a response. I want a typed answer from F4Me in his own words.
I want a typed answer from F4Me in his own words.
That’s something that just will not happen.
He has a very packed schedule since living off-the-grid is very demanding.
Clayton -