*** July 2011 low content thread ***

Miscellaneous General
121

For years my main reason for not going vegan is cheese, I don’t even consume milk unless it’s rice milk or soy milk. Though I’ve been to a local pizza place that had soy cheese pizza and it was pretty delicious. I’m willing to stop eating cheese, it’s not that big of a deal, and would probably be healthier to let go. After reading about the dairy industry and watching the videos of how dairy cows are kept it makes me want to stop usage.

Lately I’ve been making myself vegan meals, and I’ve noticed it’s cheaper to buy raw vegetables instead of canned or frozen, and that you can make a more complete meal by doing so. The other night I made quinoa (size: one cup before cooked), and steamed snap peas, broccoli, and shitake mushrooms, and it filled my girlfriend and I with some quinoa to spare (and it was a lot of food). It only costs $6 for all of it (depending on how many vegetables you get).

I don’t know why veganism is met with hostility. I can understand if someone has a problem with a way a vegan puts forth his/her argument (don’t get me wrong, I’ve met plenty of vegan assholes, and they mainly work and/or associated with PETA), but on the mere fact of not eating meat and not supporting the meat and dairy industry seems to frustrate people to no end. Clearly, I see something I have a problem with, something to my own subjective value preferences, while making a decision as an informed consumer, basing my decision on many factors, and making my choice on refraining to support or make a purchase of a particular business. Is this not what the market allows? I see a problem with the dairy and meat industry, and the issue of my health, and it’s met with negativity. I have a problem with the way the animals are treated in both industries, and I’d feel better to withdraw support from those industries. I’m making my choice on the market.

122

@Student: Yes, it’s a close call, veganism just might be true because humans spent the majority of their evolutionary history eating raw, uncooked vegetables.

I welcome all minority viewpoints, including veganism. However, vegans are notoriously preachy and I find it annoying. To follow through on a vegan diet is insane, in my opinion… it’s basically controlled starvation.

Clayton -

123

For what it’s worth, I’ve heard that eskimos, who eat very little plant matter, are much healthier than other cultures who throughout history have relied on many carbs for their diet.

124

I welcome all minority viewpoints, including veganism. However, vegans are notoriously preachy and I find it annoying. To follow through on a vegan diet is insane, in my opinion… it’s basically controlled starvation.

I’ve met preachy vegans who you just want to strangle, and I have 2 friends who are vegan, and so is my girlfriend, and they actually cannot stand those who are preachy (nor can I). I prefer (when it comes to hearing something about veganism) it to be straight forward and to the point without the preachiness. Yet, how someone acts who is vegan has nothing to do with a vegan diet, and this is something that I know can turn someone off from a certain idea or position, but the person has little to do with the idea itself.

How is veganism controlled starvation? This is another aspect I do not understand. First of all, eating vegan is eating healthy. All the vegans/vegetarians I know are not underweight, and are healthy. I actually know one vegan (who for a while only ate raw foods) who is probably over his medically suggested weight. Also, it’s not like vegans only eat salads or something to that extent. I eat a variety of foods and nice sized meals. A staple of my diet is rice (which I eat almost daily, and a variety of rice at that). Hell, if you looked at my friends and I you wouldn’t know we were veggie, nor can you tell by looking at someone who eats a healthy vegan diet.

People seem to get stuck in these food paradigms, and don’t see out of it, but when I went vegetarian years back I noticed I ate a larger variety of food than I did when meat was the main part of my diet/meal. My diet is more diverse with a larger variety of foods/meals. It all comes down to knowing how to take care of yourself and know what food is out there. Some people make the wrong decision by going veggie and having no clue on what food is out there to eat, and end up eating junk food, which is obviously the wrong route to go.

One of my friends recently bought the Veganomicon: The Ultimate Vegan Cookbook. Consider it the Human Action of vegan cooking.

125

How does it feel to be taxed now, Obama?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-motorcade-fined-london-congestion-fees-173333994.html

126

He doesn’t care…we paid for it.

127

Is Vernon Smith libertarian? If the answer is positive, then what kind of libertarian?

128

What I want to know is how someone can purport to argue that a vegan diet is the way humans are supposed to be eating by making some kind of scientific physiological case about the way our digestive system has evolved, and that somehow a vegan diet is the “natural” way humans are “supposed” to be eating, when vegan experts openly admit outside supplementation is necessary to avoid nutrient and vitamin deficiencies that would otherwise lead to death…

In my interview with raw food expert and author Susan Schenck (a bonus download audio for those who own the book, “Living Food Cures”) we discussed the Vitamin B12 issue … plus a number of other deficiencies that vegans sometimes manifest. Susan said such deficiencies are often blamed (wrongly) on the fact certain individuals may be adhering to “a raw food diet,” when the real problem is strict veganism that is absent of sufficient supplementation.

[…] According to longstanding vegan experts, individuals who consume a wide variety of vegetables and fruits, with an emphasis on primarily vegetables (particularly the green leafy ones), who faithfully take a good B12 supplement, should not suffer from deficiencies in their diet.

That being said, Susan Schenck said she believes some people have a unique physiology that doesn’t permit them to remain 100% vegan if they want to remain healthy. In other words, even if such individuals were to take a high-quality B12 supplement … the supplement just wouldn’t cut it for them. In order to be healthy, some individuals are going to have to consume some sort of animal-based food in order for their body to have what it needs to manufacture the required (and very important) B12 vitamin.

In addition, Susan is sure the issue goes even deeper than a having a Vitamin B12 deficiency. She said vegans sometimes manifest deficiencies in some other nutrients as well.

She discovered that she started suffering from a deficiency in Vitamin D and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). DHA is especially important with regards to cognitive function in the brain. The brain is is largely made up of DHA and a deficiency can trigger effects ranging from memory problems to Alzheimer’s disease. She uncovered these things after she started having trouble with her own memory … even though she’d been a faithful raw food vegan for several years at that point.

Note: Susan wants to make it very clear that she knows many people who have successfully followed the vegan diet for decades and are very healthy. She also knows others who got very cleaned out and were 100% raw vegan for many years and yet became unhealthy because of deficiencies. This is why she concluded through observation that veganism is not for everyone.

And this is more or less the opinion of other vegan experts I’ve heard. So not only do you have an open admission that “veganism is not for everyone”, you also have the point that even people who have the genetic physiology to withstand a vegan diet virtually cannot survive without some sort of supplementation of at least the B12 vitamin.

If this diet is so natural, and humans have naturally evolved to eat this way, and this is the way everyone is “supposed” to be eating—admittedly I haven’t heard many vegans with the honesty to come right out and say that’s what they believe, but you’ll at least hear most say that it’s “healthier”—then why do even the most genetically resilient individuals require a man-made supplement to their “natural” diet to avoid deficiency and death?

129

Interestingly enough, this was just uploaded yesterday…I haven’t watched yet, but it might provide some insight:

130

Top comment:

“Proving someone else is wrong doesn’t demonstrate you’re right, just because “general equilibrium economics” is wrong doesn’t show that “experimental economics” is right. I doubt Hayek would approve of this so called “experimental economics”, for an actual analysis of the work done by this man and his style of “economics” as opposed to a personal interview and a few soundbites of what he does read this mises.org/daily/1082 and mises.org/daily/1409/Experimen­tal-Economics-Indeed”

131

And this is more or less the opinion of other vegan experts I’ve heard. So not only do you have an open admission that “veganism is not for everyone”, you also have the point that even people who have the genetic physiology to withstand a vegan diet virtually cannot survive without some sort of supplementation of at least the B12 vitamin.

If this diet is so natural, and humans have naturally evolved to eat this way, and this is the way everyone is “supposed” to be eating—admittedly I haven’t heard many vegans with the honesty to come right out and say that’s what they believe, but you’ll at least hear most say that it’s “healthier”—then why do even the most genetically resilient individuals require a man-made supplement to their “natural” diet to avoid deficiency and death?

To be honest, it’s not my concern whether someone else is having problems. You act like I’m holding on to a diet dogmatically, which I’m not. It’s a personal choice, and it isn’t for everyone. I posted that video/information because I figured a few people would be interested (and Student was). Now, out of the information you can gather I can find information to counter it. It would be a waste of my time to continue this. Am I pushing this down your throat? Am I being preachy? No.

Moderator note: profanities removed.
-Nielsio

132

Did I say anything about you? I asked a question about veganism and those who promote it as a “healthier” way of life and claim (or at least imply) that it is the way humans are “supposed” to be eating.

133

Link

Whatever, I still reckon we’re the sane ones.

134

Even The Economist is catching on…

On the edge

By engulfing Italy, the euro crisis has entered a perilous new phase—with the single currency itself now at risk

Jul 14th 2011 | from the print edition

135

What we saw at FreedomFest 2011

136

One Nation Under Sex?

137

JFK cheated on:

275×358 18.9 KB

with

325×409 27.3 KB

?

138

Well…

The Terminator cheated on

with

(By the way, the wife’s name is Maria…the mistress is Mildred. You can’t write stuff like this.)

139

Tiger Woods cheated on:

with

140

Now you know the real reason why the Church is so obsessed with abstinence. Sex is perceived as dirty, therefore, those who can maintain the illusion that they are abstinent dwell On High. Don’t mess with the Pope, he’ll bury you, politically. Look what happened to DSK.

Clayton -