Now that’s a bit of a sweeping statement, and smacks of ignorance. Not only are secular Jews (such as Humanistic Jews) often non-Zionists, but even a segment of orthodox religious Jews are against the state of Israel. See this: http://www.nkusa.org/
Also, in case you didn’t know, those who are ethnically Jewish are considered Jews whether they are theists, agnostics, or atheists, just in case you decide to tell me that Secular Jews aren’t actually Jewish.
I don’t get it. I say that there are people who are Jews and are not Zionist, and you respond that I am ignorant because there are people who are Jews and are not Zionist. How is my statement that there are non-Zionist Jews sweeping and ignorant, when you are responding that, well, there are non-Zionist Jews?
Yes, I know the laws regarding who is Jewish and who is not. I am fully aware that he who is born to a Jewish mother is Jewish, regardless of beliefs. What is your point?
It’s not a state, as a state is inherently involuntary.
You do realize that God, as the inherent determining force in that which is moral and immoral, will decide what is moral and as the determining force of morality He is inherently correct in it.
If God says eating pork is evil, then it is evil. If God says some people may eat pork when others may not, thensome people may eat pork when others may not. I sincerely believe all rules and laws like this are trivial pieces of nothing mixed in with biblical text.
Yes, that was part of my point that it doesn’t make sense to apply libertarian demands to God.
That apparently I can’t read. Sorry about that, I mis-interpreted your post, so just ignore what I said lol.
No.
Yeh I agree with Paul here, that seems to be circular logic to me.
No, it’s a tautology.
God determines morality.
If God is a benevolent God (claims to be moral), then He is not a malevolant God.
Oh I see what you’ve done there.
By the way, I was meaning to ask someone about this. Does the bible specifically say that there are no other gods than the creator god? It says “You shall have no other gods before me” but this doesn’t mean that others do not exist. Does it say that god is the only god (not that god is the only one you should worship) anywhere in the bible?
But if God determines morality, how can God claim to be moral? Anything he does is moral by definition. To claim to be moral, he must be using some definition of “moral” other than “whatever I do”, or both the claim and the concept of morality are meaningless.
Far from God determining morality, ISTM that God and the concept of morality are mutually exclusive!
Quite easily.
God presents Himself as moral, qualifying His words, commandments, and will as being moral by definition.
Yes, such is the point of being Lord.
How is it meaningless? Meaningless for whom? For the Lord, maybe, but for you, no. You are not the Lord and as such must be bound to the Lord’s moral limitations, wherever they may fall.
The fact that morality can be derived from objective theory and logic is a byproduct of, not a negation or alternative for the Lord’s command.
In the English version, “before me” means no Gods but Me.
In any case,
Jeremiah 10:8-11
8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught by worthless wooden idols. 9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish and gold from Uphaz What the craftsman and goldsmith have made is then dressed in blue and purple—all made by skilled workers.10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.11 "Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’ "
For a very similar argument, see Plato’s Euthyphro.
(edited to fix link)
I thought “before me” was already English. Besides that, “You shall have no other god but me” could still be interpretted as, “There are other gods, but you may not worship them.”
God specifically prohibitted worship of Moleck. (Lev. 18:21) However, at no point did he say Moleck does not exist. His command could be taken as either, “I am the only God. These others are not real and should not be worshipped,” or, “I am your God
and you should not be worshipping these other gods, especially Moleck, because I find him disgusting”
Yes, thank you Jack, that was what I was trying to say. I’d like to see what the original version said and if this is a possible mis-translation, or if the “before me” doesn’t have the same meaning in the original language. If not, then…well it makes things interesting 
About God and Morality
In the last online JLS in Who’s to Say What’s Right or Wrong? People Who Have Ph.D.s in Philosophy, That’s Who Richard Sharvy argues, that even if God sais something is good or bad, it’s because it IS good or bad despite His own existence.
I like to change the argument a bit in order to, pardon my keynsian, eat the cookie and have the cookie: God by giving man free will and creating the laws of logic which rule our world, created an unintended side effect called morality. (unintended meaning not His primary goal, He couldn’t have probably done anything uninteded. It just sounds nicely austrian to my ear;) It is then his choice to respect them, as it was his choice to give us free will. One could of course say, that thus morality IS created by Him, but you might as well say, that he wanted us to be killing each other. No, he just chose to respect his primary decision, and accepts the consequence of giving us free will.
It gets rather obvious enough when you notice, that there is no morality without free will, (and laws of logic connecting means and ends, action and consequence).
As for OTHER Gods in the Old Testament, there we have a problem. There is a dispute about some original meaning of words used when the problem of monotheism vs henotheism (worshiping of one god without denying the existence of other gods) is being stated in the bible. What we know for sure, is that there are over 20 names of other gods mentioned in there…
As for Vatican, I think it’s clear now: it’s voluntary, it’s private property, whatever. It’s not a state as a libertarian would dislike.
English version as in the common context of the day that the English version was translated.
You’re getting into semantics now. The Bible specifically says, on numerous occassions, that the Lord of Abraham is the one and true Lord your God. Yes, the word, ‘your’ is used, but in a broad interpretation of general humanity.
He referred to Himself dozens of times as the “God of Israel,” the “God of Hebrews,” or the “God of your fathers.” The “your” is most likely referring to the Israelites, as He is most certainly not the God of Egypt, or of the Amorites, or of Sidon, Moab, Ammon or the Philistines. (Judges 10:6) He and His followers also spoke many times of other gods:
“I will go through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments–I am the Lord” (Exodus 12:12)
“Now I know that the Lord is greater than all the gods; indeed, it was proven when they dealt proudly against the people…” (Exodus 18:11)
“You shall not worship their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their deeds; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their sacred pillars in pieces.”
(Exodus 23:24)
"…you shall not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God-- otherwise you might make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land and they would play the harlot with their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone might invite you to eat of his sacrifice, and you might take some of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters might play the harlot with their gods and cause your sons also to play the harlot with their gods.
(Exodus 34:14-16)
“You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you…” (Deuteronomy 6:14)
“Yet you have forsaken Me and served other gods; therefore I will no longer deliver you. Go and cry out to the gods which you have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your distress.” (Judges 10:13-14)
“The house which I am about to build will be great, for greater is our God than all the gods.” (Chronicles 2:5)