I was trying to point out that line of thought leads to war, murder, theft and justifications thereof.
Charming.
Dishonorable discharges are great career enders. Granted people have to weigh that option with the opinion of being a warrior. Some have the courage to do it, some don’t. This mentality that ‘if you are in the military you are instantly labeled some kind of social deviant’ is pretty absurd and dishonest in my mind. This is not some simple question of ‘Well are you in or are you out?’
Who have I apologized for exactly?
How benevolent of you.
How is it a slap in the face to them? How are the actions of A a reflection on the actions of B? You seem to be arguing from the same point as Juan where if one person does something in an institution then it is a reflection upon the images of all in that organization. I think that is a false premise.
It was charming when you absolve people of personal responsibility for their actions.
How so?
Sure it is.
You’re equivocating.
I don’t know. Every social movement needs an us versus them mentality to build momentum.
Well, I’m basically fresh out of uni w/ a degree in a sector that’s contracting (hence, hell of a time finding post-grad job). I’m under tremendous financial strain. I thought of enlisting (Canada). They’ld make me an officer and the pay and benefits would be pretty decent. But! I can’t stomach the thought of taking an innocent persons life, even if only indirectly. And I recognize that there’s a distinct possibility that I may be put in such a situation. Hence, I don’t join (which would solve so many problems for me right now).
So, when you argue that these volunteer soldiers are not responsible for their actions when they so clearly are and that we should feel for them, its a little insulting.
And what about those who only refuse their second or third deployment?
Which basicaly makes the case for Laughing Man. As someone who has thought about signing up himself you should probably find it in yourself to look at people who indeed did sign up for the same reason you might have with some amount of sympathy and not write them off from the list of humanity albeit while stil severely condeming their actions.
In any case it is not something libertarianism can resolve it seems we are arguing the nuances of christian love here.
What a pantload.
@Stephen, I am really proud of you.
No, it does not make his case. There’s a difference between ppl who have pride and hold themselves to a certain standard and avoid unjustified means and ppl who don’t bother w/ these things. I sympathize with those who are like me and have contempt for those who take the easy way out. Furthermore, apologizing for moral cowardice legitimizes it.
Why? I was disgusted he would have even thought about signing up.
You are misconstructing the position you are arguing against.
I’m merely trying to explain their mentality. There is no absolving here, though it is nice to see that you think me so powerful as to have such an ability. Honestly, I’m awestruck.
Because the military is comprised of people who test water for hygiene and other such trivial tasks. You are trying to portray them as mad dogs with guns. As I have said before you even came into the conversation [ therefore you can’t say I’m placating you ], there are individuals who are deviants, however, you [ like Juan ] are trying to construct a viewpoint based on a set of individuals and trying to apply it to all others. It is dishonest and petty.
This coming from a man who thinks that everything in the world of morality is subjective yet when you desire you so easily bounce into the world of absolutism.
You see further questioning as equivocation? How can I combat such a brazen mindset? Please, lead me through this logic of how the actions of an individual are a reflection upon the whole group.
That’s fine. In my argument I have said nothing about whether people should or shouldn’t enlist or go through OCS. All I sought to do was explain a paradox within the military itself. It is an institution which has caused a great deal of harm yet also there are individuals in it who have not contributed to said harm. There are surgeons who don’t kill people in the military, mail carriers, water testers, communications but there are also people who have. We cannot lump them together and say ‘Oh well they are all wonderful people’ nor can we say ‘Oh well they are all heartless killers.’ That is the argument at hand here.
Yes but volunteering in the military does not a fortiori mean you are killing people. There has to be a distinction between those MOS’ who are the ‘warrior-class’ and those who are not. Nowhere have I advocated violence or violation of the NAP. In fact I announced that we should work towards an ending of this conflict in order to stop unnecessary harm. So I am not being an apologist for trying to explain the problem that exists concerning the military complex.