MISES, FRIEDMAN AND RAND: A METHODOLOGICAL COMPARISON

Source.

I tend to point to this as where she goes wrong. How do peple observe goal-directed actions from the outside? What is it about the action that tells you it is goal-directed, rather than, say, epileptic? What do you look for in your observations to make that determination?

Excellent read; despite having not read much Mises (and next to none of Friedman), I understood the explanations enough to move along. I have to say, I’m susprised with how much I find myself agreeing with Rand, specifically within this essay.

Although, I was an A.J. Ayer fan before reading any of Rand, so I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

Perhaps buying and selling on the stock markets is a good example of this. Someone sitting there watching stocks go up and down suddenly sees the stock drop really quickly and they get a gut wrenching feeling in their stomach and a strong desire just to get out, sell, sell, sell! They have to be a seasoned veteran and even then still consciously restrain themselves in order to resist this “knee jerk” response… but quite a few market participants fail to overcome that sinking feeling in their stomach and consequently they do sell.

To what degree is this action a conscious goal directed action and to what extent is it simple reflex, like recoiling when you touch a hotplate? Mises acknowledged that not all actions were economic actions (of choice) but that some, such as recoiling from a hot plate, were reflex. I wonder if yet more again are a bit of a mix of the two…

Imo, Mises’ argument on human action (as far as I understand it) is a seductive argument, but ultimatley doesn’t add up due to apriorism; being a casual reader of Ayer, I already did not think apriorism itself is sound. The essay helps clarify (especially for Freidman, which I had previously had trouble comprehending) the weak spot of Mises, and how Rand’s stance addresses this.

This essay also reminded me of a good Ayer quote I remember coming across, of which I thought was somewhat related:

“Philosophers have been attracted by the idea of a purely demonstrative use of words because they wanted to make the best of both worlds. They have sought as it were to merge their language with the facts it was supposed to picture; to treat its signs as symbols, and yet bestow upon them the solidity which belongs to the facts themselves, the facts being simply there without any question of doubt or error arising. But these aims are incompatible. Purely demonstrative expressions are in their way secure; but only because the information which they give is vanishingly small. They point to something that is going on, but they do not tell us what it is.”

*(This would’ve been my previous post but I had forgotten the above quote…)

Then can you please explain just how one identifies, purely through empirical evidence, the difference between a person striving towards chosen ends, and a person having an epileptic fit?

Neither Ayer nor any other logical positivist is in any position to question the soundness of rationalism, given the shaky grounds their own theories rest upon. I’m not a Kantian anymore, but of the two, rationalism is able of answering difficult questions that positivism simply collapses when faced with (and this is why pure empiricism is no longer in fashion, at least as far as the world outside idiot economists is concerned.) Geoffrey Plauche has a good paper on methodology in the reading list, and Hoppe’s In Defense of Extreme Rationalism reveals the inadequacies of any approach that rejects truths that are synthetic a priori. Hollis’ and Nell’s Rational Economic Man is good too.

Indeed, I am a casual reader of Ayer (as well as others on this page), so I feel as if I’m being a bit reckless jumping into a discussion without knowing the land too well; one of the things which I didn’t know, in-depth, is rationalism. I will try and start reading the Plauche piece (as well as looking into the Hoppes and Nell books mentioned) tonight; perhaps I’ll understand this thread a bit more afterwards. I apologize my philosophical virginity.

Despite inexperience, it’s hard for one to not comment on things in a discussion that make sense :).

As for the previous post; I’d imagine using biological methods would be able to differentiate between the two. Medicals scans could detect current conditions of said person’ brain, in which data would illuminate on whether or not they are having a seizure or not. Of course, this is assuming that the person manages to survive seizuring for the amount of time required for such scans to occur.

There is neurochemical differences between those states, though; empirical data could be gathered to specify which one is occuring.

Well I don’t mean to discourage you, it’s just that positivism is not the best of places to seek a sound methodology. I think once you’ve read the sources I cited (as well as the one cited by the paper in the OP) you’ll come out with a better understanding of the topic, perhaps better than even what you’d get at a university.

No worries, actually; I had read of positivism’s criticisms before (as early as when I first started reading it via wikipedia), but it always helps to get a better understand of how as well. The only discouraging thing is the snail’s pace I’ve been going at, in terms of getting my hand’s dirty with various readings.

Ok - so now you just need to establish that you can do it once. That is, you need to show that you can find a person who is definitely engaged in purposeful action, in order to measure the neurochemical state of his brain. Then you’ll have something you can compare future people to. So, how will you do this the first time? Also, once you’ve done it, you’ll need to establish which particular facts about the neurochemical status allowed you to make the distinction, and why. I submit that this can’t be done.

To make it relevant, though, you’ll next have to connect it to actual people doing epistemology - that is, this most certainly is not how economists make the distinction. So it will remain to show how we, in our normal life, make the differentiation.

Mises = Good

M. Friedman = Bad

Rand = Ugly