Mish's View vs. Murphy, etc.

Mish finally defended himself against Bob Murphy’s last article here. What is your personal opinion?

For those unfamiliar, Mish has mostly argued that we will have Japan-style credit deflation for some time, and the Fed and government cannot prevent this (without knowingly wreaking havoc on the economy, which they do not want to do). In contrast, several Mises Institute members have said the Fed is dangerously close to hyperinflation…even if it can stave it off from the immediate future, it has no exit strategy on how to eventually avoid such.

My take - Mish is more or less right. The Fed’s ballooning balance sheet is definitely not a purposeful effort to dump money on the ground. It, in conjunction with the interest paid on excess reserves, is an attempt to help raise (steal?) capital for the banks. There are still significant losses ahead that the banks cannot avoid or dump on the taxpayer. In addition, some banks appear to be profiting well from these deals (I assume they are brokering securities and other junk to the Fed, not just simply dumping their existing balance sheets). Central banking has generally operated as Mish indicates - it is able to bail out banks after they’ve made foolhardy loans, but it cannot induce banks to loan without resorting to radical measures such as taxing money/reserves which may induce new crises before even creating a temporary boom.

Also, banks don’t want to loan in a low interest rate environment, especially when everyone already has too much debt that is becoming close to impossible to service. The opportunity cost of sitting on cash is lessened for the banks. This would change in a high-price-inflation environment as interest rates must move up to retain their “real” rate. It seems for interest rates, their nominal value is more important than the real. Yet,

One may counter that real and nominal interest rates were low during the housing bubble. Correct, yet banks felt safe to loan because the value on the collateral was rising. Defaults might be profitable. Also, investors were buying housing securities based upon poor evaluation of risks, allowing banks to somewhat disregard risks as well (if they want mud pies…). Today, on the other hand, there is no credit-driven bubble and a lot of uncertainty. There are forthcoming regulatory changes and taxes on the way. Banks need to evaluate not only the long-term profitability of their borrowers in terms of the market, but political considerations. Take for example, an otherwise sweet deal to open a new coal mine. The bank might want to wait on that.

On the other hand, the Fed can overshoot its target. The banks might fool it into buying too many MBS’s. The government might borrow too much from the Fed. Foreign nations might start dumping the dollar. The banking sector could be further nationalized. A lot of things can happen to push us towards more inflation.

I’ve thought about this, and realized that besides a few key differences, the US economy would follow the path of the Japanese economy.

The few key differences include:

  • US imperialism vs. Japanese non-imperialism
  • US $ as world reserve currency
  • Japan is a creditor of US debt, the US not so much of Japanese debt. The US also has other large foreign creditors

The current situation of the finance and banking industry in the US pretty much mirrors the one of Japan in the early 90’s. Politically speaking, and in some ways economically speaking, it is much more like the USSR.

When people stopped betting on the yen, what did the Yen have to lose? Some value on the market. Not a lot of downside. The US dollar, on the other hand, can lose world reserve currency status. Imagine if most of the dollars in the world went back to America, and the rest of the world decided not to use the USD for exchanges. That’s a lot of potential downside for the value of the dollar.

So in summation, the USD has the downside of losing its function and reputation as the world currency, while the Japanese yen didn’t.

Why does the deflation camp seem to ignore that, in order for the inflation camp to be right, prices do not have to rise, instead, all that prices have to do is not fall as much as they would have?

I don’t understand what is meant by “capital” when mish is talking about capital ratios as contrasted with reserve ratios. Can anyone help?

Great thread though, i’m learning a lot.

Who do you think is buying up all the treasury bills financing the record deficits?

That person just tried to use fractional reserve lending to disprove inflation? What an asshat!

From what I gather, he’s stating that the reserves don’t determine how much the banks lend out but rather the capital. I’m not sure what “capital” means in this context, as I asked above, but it surely has something to do with how profitable the loans it can make are.

In a market where most people couldn’t pay back their loans, the profit would be negative. So it wouldn’t matter how much the banks had in reserve if it was a losing battle to lend it out. IMO they’re gearing up for when the economy recovers so they can have tons of money to loan out during the next boom.

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Banks inflate by creating credit, the capital of which they become responsible for providing. If the loan goes bad, they still have to pay up the liabilities they created, even though their assets are being written down. If too many loans get written down, the bank ends up having more liabilities than assets and is bust.

That means that if the bank cannot find a debtor it believes will pay back the loan, no matter how low interest rates are, it won’t lend. That is why they are shoving money into government debt. They believe it is the only asset that can’t go bad, since the Fed will just buy it all up if it needs to.

Fractional reserve lending is based on the idea that banks are allowed to meet their liabilities not out of equity, but out of depositors’ account. (Essentially making deposits into assets.) If banks were required to only lend out their own capital, they could never go bust.

How are they doing this? Through T-bills or something?

I don’t understand :frowning:

This thread needs more followers… its a good thread.

What the hell? Any debtor can default.

Why do low interest rates matter? They’re lending at a higher rate than they’re paying on deposits. And why is a high demand for credit a bad thing from the banks perspective? As long as they make somewhat decent loans, they’re in the green.

The political decisions are known–the government will bail out institutions “too big to fail.”

The FED has overshot. They created about 3 trillion in reserves, which means about a 30 trillion dollar increase in the money supply once banks start lending (more if the demand for money falls, which should be expected). Once the FED starts to pull the liquidity out, i.e., through open market sales, bond/security prices will collapse, and a lot of inflation will remain in the system. They have no conceivable exist strategy.

Do Austrians no longer believe in the quantity theory?

I think the deflation camp recognizes this fact, but they’re claiming that because the market is a) saturated with loans, and b) in the toilet, there aren’t very many good loan candidates at the moment, so even though banks could lend out tons of money, they’re not going to until the market recovers.

I’m obviously still trying to grasp the fundamentals of this predicament, but I think that we will have short term deflation (maybe for as long as 5 years) and then gradual inflation for a long time. Like I said in a previous post. It feels like they are gearing up to go for another round of superlending.

The inflation won’t be gradual; as soon as the economy seems to be recovering (the malinvestments are kept arbitrarily profitable), the banks will lend, and inflation will spiral out of control.

Saying that the market is saturated with credit just means that the precautionary demand for cash holdings is high–which it wont be for long.

One regulatory requirement on the banks is the reserve ratio, which is the amount of liquidity held against deposits. Another is the capital adequacy ratio which is the quality of bank assets held against debt. Check out this wikipedia article.

He’s obviously NOT talking about real savings, but the digits that the Fed can create. Do you still need help?

Obviously the Fed bought a lot of it. And obviously the Fed doesn’t care about the quality of its balance sheet - nor does it care about the rates it is getting - it has a political agenda to finance the gov’t while driving down interest rates.

But are you suggesting that the banks are loaning money to themselves to buy treasury bills?

Of course, and the shareholders would take a loss, but the bank could meet all of its liabilities.

Wishful thinking, but monetary central planning and interventionism are not easily controllable, and the mess they creates are not easily remedied. History is quite clear–when you print a lot of money, and reduce the interest rate far below the natural rate, prices will rise. The only thing they can do is try to suck back the liquidity, and allow interest rates to skyrocket. Clearly, this will not happen.

I’m not sure what you mean by that. If the banks buy treasury bills, they are lending to the treasury, not themselves. You can’t make a loan to yourself. It makes no sense.

hmm.. that’s interesting. I read the whole thing, but I’m sure i’m still missing some pieces.

But the long and short of it is, that in the CAR, risk weighting is determined by some central authority. The risk weighting is kind of a measure of the probability that you will be paid back for that loan. So in their example government has a risk weight of 100% since gov will always pay its loans and homes have a risk weighting of 50% and other maybe bad loans have a risk weighting of zero percent so that they don’t count towards total weighted assets.

oof ><

edit: wait i had it backwards. Its 0% risk on gummint and 100% risk weighting on consumer loans…