We don’t want a primitive society. We want to move forwards, not backwards.
We want to replace a monopolistic government with private rating-, arbitration and protection agencies. Same thing for money and all other goods and services. Moving towards NO property rights is worse than the degree of property rights that people believe in now.
There are things very positive and pure out there, and by settling for something crappy you are inevitably lowering your standards.
Oh, and btw, if you’re going to be advocating anti-capitalism and anti-consumerism then what you’re actually pushing people towards is socialism NOT anti-statism.
I agree but as long these concepts are not clearly embodied in movies, I believe we must categories Fight Club as at least a (poor) starting point. It’s certainly better than nothing, and arguably better than V which is invariably included in such lists.
Then argue for it’s removal, don’t promote “trash” just because there is other “garbage” in the list.
“It’s better than nothing” is a terrible standard.
There are thousands and thousands of movies that are better. They don’t need to be pro-anarchy to be a force for freedom. A movie against child abuse is also a force for freedom.
I disagree that Fight Club is better than nothing. All it does is bitch against the concept of a job, the concept of being a consumer, etc, etc, and it’s totally psychotic. “Let’s beat each other in the face; what a great idea!”. Yes, it’s close to some valid points throughout the movie, but unless those points are actually reached, it does nothing for freedom. And I’ll repeat: all it does it push people towards socialism, which is the only alternative they know.
I believe that after watching Fight Club people are indeed closer to a “primitivist” point of view, but they have also been introduced to the cardinal concept of statelessness, in a non-dreamland, non-fairytale way. Primitivism/socialism “gains”, but statelessness also gains, and the marginal gain of statelessness is, I believe, higher (no quantification intended) for most viewers, simply because statelessness has almost no currency at all. A small gain for us is simply invaluable as compared to yet an other gain for “them”. It’s a “net gain”, and that’s why I advocate the movie. But than again, that’s just me.
Fight club is brilliant. Hower I don’t see how it is directly anti-state. If anything it indirectly anti-state.
It is a movie at the end of the violent and bloody 20th century. The insanity of everything is a critique of the 20th century. The main character has no family, no home, no community, nothing. His job is morally dubious. He doesn’t even know what his own life should be. Violence fills the void in his life. The main character is basically insane. It’s like the culmination of the 20th century -
“Look good and hard you progressives, socialists, establishment liberals and conservatives, and all other statists. This world is what you wanted. How do you like it now? This is your dream, and it is a nightmare!”
Libertarians are against private and public violence. The people in fight club are revolting. They’re moving in the wrong direction until the end of the movie when he start to come to his senses.
I personally liked “On the waterfront” if you can watch a movie from 1954.
Thurs. 10/03/11 16:18 EST
.post #08
We The Living is now available on DVD.
The Big Country is my favorite Western.
Gregory Peck, playing a shrewd but peaceful merchant, ultimately prevails amidst the senseless violence of two feuding families.
Great cast, great acting, great music, great cinematography, and some great lessons in life.
Great movie.
Who are you quoting here?
He’s paraphrasing metaphorically.
Don’t know if these been mentioned,
Barry Lyndon, Paths of Glory (and anything by Kubrick)
Pulp Fiction
No Country for Old Men
12 Monkeys
Pretty good. “This is your dream, and it is a nightmare!”
Great post!
I too got that impression that the movie hints that there’s nowhere else to go with a ‘liberal’ mindset. It invites one to think, or at least it certainly did so with me.
Thank you. Nielsio is correct. I did have in mind the scene in The Watchmen comic about The American Dream -
One of my favorite parts of the movie too.
Dark City is awesome.
How do these fit into any of the categories?
Seen it before or watched because of this thread?
It’s great individualism vs collectivism.
Recently saw:
[1954] Shichinin no samurai (Seven Samurai) - Oldschool, yet awesome. Great character development. Pays out the police / state. Defense against invading bandits. Action, not slow at all. Worthy of the list.
12 Monkeys - Good, interesting. Cool twist, kind of bashes animal rightists.. but imo, not worthy of the list.
Sophie Scholl (2005) - What it was like to live in Nazi germany. Put to death for spreading paper at uni.. good exchange at the “trial.” Fairly good.
2081 - Finally Equal (2009) - epic! No faults. The hero is mentioned as an “anarchist”. He has been wronged. Massive pro individualism, anti statism, anti egalitarianism, anti equality… must seeee.
Saw 50 Dead men Walking last night. Pretty decent. Ben Kingsley never fails to present a good performance.
I’m not sure if the movie fits, but I really liked Dirty Harry. I actually was mad when they couldn’t convict the sniper because Eastwood was too harsh on him. I don’t know how the legal situations in that movie would fit this thread, but when you have all the evidence sitting there and you still can’t convict the guy due to some legal encroachments it seems rather…tedius and time consuming (and don’t take this as an endorsement for cops to do whatever they want). Any thoughts on Dirty Harry?
must see comedies: Duck Soup, The Americanization of Emily, Dr> Strangelove, and MASH