Disney World has private roads that are open to everyone, including non customers passing through. I imagine a similar model could be adopted to allow the “free movement of persons and property” that Mises proposed. While we have a semi-monopoly road system in the United States, I am intrinsically opposed to closing them to anyone, regardless of their status of citizenship. If we were to follow the Rothbardian view, it would be possible for you to be cut off from accessing your property if it were surrounded by neighbors who don’t want you passing through. Of course, this is no different than what states have done historically, but the possibility remains. Of course, we can only suggest what people 'ought to do, not what they will do.
I have to admit: this is one issue I’ve somewhat modified my views on over time. Although I don’t support the AZ law, I’ve become increasingly sympathetic to Hoppean experimentation on the immigration issue. Sure, most of the right wing’s arguments against immigration are asinine, but there are still good reasons to be skeptical.
To give one example: allowing mass immigration from Islamists has led to Shariah courts in the UK. Hardly a libertarian (or left-liberal) result, but it’s difficult to know what you’re getting when you open the gates to everyone in the whole world. The statism of immigrants is often even worse than the statism of Americans, so it’s hard to get excited about giving them the right to vote.
If they don’t take welfare or vote, I don’t care. But it seems laughably unlikely under the the current system. The left’s defense of immigration has nothing to do with libertarian concerns of free markets/movement (obviously). Just the opposite. They’re licking their chops because they hope their new voting bloc will help them install their next leftist caudillo.
This isn’t to say I’m against immigration per se, or that I support draconian programs to “crack down” on it. There are plenty of immigrants we should be taking in, but the left is most interested in the ones we shouldn’t…
Interesting. Who is this ‘we’ that has an interest in ‘taking people in’ or not?
Gosh Cork, I didn’t know being an immigrant made you more “statist” than anyone else. I’m glad you could share your omniprescient wisdom on the matter.
But if you try to tell me who I can keep on my own personal property, then you are a communist.
Well ok, it really makes you only a statist. But it’s a slippery slope.
Who started this term, “statist”. Is it supposed to be an insult?
You just can’t compare Muslim immigrants with Latino immigrants, apples and oranges.
I think the evidence suggests latino immigrants are good for the economy, even in our statist, terrible welfare system.
And whether you like it or not, they are going to gain the upper hand in voting. The majority of babies born in the US this year were non-white. This whole “stop them before they out vote us” is already over, the Latinos won a long time ago.
But per capita income is a misleading statistic anyway. You could raise per capita income by exterminating all the poor people, doesn’t mean anyone gets any benefit out of it.
From a consequentialist perspective, the big question is whether the immigrants are raising the standard of living for the native population. The evidence suggests they really have little impact, but it is probably a slight improvement for us.
But having more “laburer’s floating around” leads to lower costs for production and services. If we can hire illegals to pick the grapes we can pay less for grapes at the grocery store.
I am STRONGLY against illegal immigration, yet I consider myself a strong libertarian. My reasons are as follows:
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Illegal Immigrants are undocumented, and therefore do not pay income tax. This makes them leeches on society, feeding off of hardworking American’s tax dollars. They are actually infringing upon OUR rights, and not vice versa. If they do not pay any income tax whatsoever, what about the 14th amendment and equal protection under the law? They would be “more equal” than us since they can thus enjoy the same rights as us without paying taxes.
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What is the point of having a border when anyone can cross at will? We must defend our sovereignty. There IS a national security issue here…
That is not true, a large majority of “illegal immigrants” do pay income tax through Friedman’s withholding income tax. They use fake social security cards to get work. Of course, since their identification is fake they don’t get the tax ‘refunds’ or others. Those who work under the table pay no taxes true, but they also do not recieve the free social services for the exception of emergency room and other services for low income families… So guess what, the argument against illegal immigration becomes an argument versus the poor in general. Did you know the majority of people in the US don’t pay taxes as it is? The immigrants are probably the only thing keeping the bubble economy afloat through their high productivity and low wages.
" therefore do not pay income tax. This makes them leeches on society, "
No one should pay taxes. If they can manage it, good for them.
" feeding off of hardworking American’s tax dollars. "
But you can’t blame the illegals for this. Blame the laws in congress, the AMA etc that force our hospitals to treat anyone who wants care. Blame the IRS for confiscating wealth.
We can all wish that society would boycott social welfare programs, public schools etc. But those who use government services are peons in the big extortion racket.
Also, I’d have to say a border patrol agent, who makes his entire living off of stolen money, is more culpable than the immigrant sending his kid to a public school.
“what about the 14th amendment and equal protection under the law? They would be “more equal” than us since they can thus enjoy the same rights as us without paying taxes.”
LoL, you don’t seriously care about the constitution do you? It’s a joke anyway.
" What is the point of having a border when anyone can cross at will?"
What is the point of having a border enforced by an evil organization, the United States government?
"We must defend our sovereignty. "
Exactly. Stop the tax man who wants to steal from us and enslave us.
“There IS a national security issue here…”
If the immigrants are destroying the national security system, tell me how I can sign up and help them. If this leads to the destruction of the United States government, then bring in as many immigrants as possible.
That’s a good point Tel. I would add that they also pay a lot of state sales taxes and state property taxes. Illegals who rent indirectly pay property taxes, with economic incidence but not legal incidence.
Which really only leaves the “no stinky lazy catholics in my country” and “their children get free education” arguments. Ironically, also the jabs that were made against the Irish and others in the 19th century.