Philosophy of suicide

Miscellaneous General
1

This is two part topic. One is about broader view, the other is just about particular situtation.

…PART ONE…

What are your thougths on suicide? I mean, in a philosophical (especially libertarian) sense, not psychological reasons.

Is it ethical or unethical?

Is it moral or immoral?

Is it libertarian or unlibertarian?

There are many arguments against it (in favor too), though, most of them are appeals to gods or nature. The most frustrating part was:

“Hobbes and Locke reject the right of individuals to take their own life. Hobbes also states that it is intuitively rational for men to want felicity and to fear death most.”

So, what are your thoughts? For wider view, read the articles bellow.

My view, is that suicide is justifiable only when it’s rational (terminal illness and severe pain). I am quite neutral/undecided on suicide as a sacrifice though.

…PART TWO…

Also, consider the person owns me 1000 dollars (we signed a contract) and commits suicide after he spends all the money on drugs or whatever. Is it moral or immoral now?

What matters is that he intentionally violated the contract and didn’t bring back my money. Suppose I didn’t know he was suicidal. It’s not my fault that he died, he owed me money and thus, his suicide was a crime. Yeah, I know it’s impossible to punish for such a crime and get a restitution (unless he had an insurance and/or it was in our contract), but still the point stands.

The only justification I see in an accidental death, I mean, if he had heart-attack or was hit by a car. But if he knowingly (suppose was phisically healthy etc.) commited suicide, then he violated the contract. If death is intentional - it could be a crime (immoral or illegal act, if you know what I mean), if it is not intentional - it is justifiable, although, the damage was still done. That’s my thinking on this particular case and I don’t claim, that suicide per se is wrong, but only when it affects the legal and legitimate contract.

Discuss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives_on_suicide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_suicide

Ultimate Freedom: To take One's own life.
2

I consider suicide (in most circumstances I assume that it need not be explained that this does not apply to obvious exceptional cases) the ultimate in weakness and pettiness, and this is as someone who has considered suicide many times. This being said in an odd way I consider suicide somewhat glorious and the ultimate right, and the ultimate in a terrifyingly awesome power. Especially if one believes in the right of self ownership (I don’t but I know many here do) then it must be a right to commit suicide. It is not a matter of anyone else whether or not any individual should kill themselves or not, but this being said suicide effects more than one person and has tremendous effects on a large number of people

Within the last year two people in my life have attempted to commit suicide and one succeeded. Both lacked any of suicides possible virtues, they were acts of passion and despair that harmed everyone involved greatly and were utterly uncalled for. Suicide is almost always a weak and wretched escape.

A. Ethical in that it should not be stopped (unless there are outstanding contracts which would necessitate that the individual should not kill themselves and that the contract couldn’t be properly resolved in the case of death. EX: I have a debt that will not be paid for by simply seizing and selling off my assets. This being said I consider it Unethical as I consider they should not do it, it is against my value preferences in most cases

B. See A

C. Very Libertarian in most cases

I agree, except that I think that if the guy has 1,000 dollars in assets you should be provided with this.

3

“What are your thougths on suicide? I mean, in a philosophical (especially libertarian) sense”

Self ownership. You can do what you want with your property. You have a right to blow up your house if you so choose.

Whether you should is a completely different question. One that libertarian qua libertarian has no answer for, because that is outside the task of political philosophy.

4

Is it ethical or unethical?

Is it moral or immoral?

What is the difference between these two?

Anyhow, I agree with Conza.

5

As you have absolute ownership of your own body, you have the right to commit suicide.

You also have the right to enlist the help of another to end your life (voluntary euthanasia).

6

Admittedly, I haven’t studied that much case law regarding suicide, but my basic understanding of the law is that it’s never been seen as a legal right in this country and it still isn’t. I cannot see any reason why the law must allow people to kill themselves.

From a moral standpoint, it seems to me that God won’t look kindly on people who kill themselves.

7

From a moral standpoint, it seems to me that God won’t look kindly on people who kill themselves.

this follows from gods cruely and petty concerns in the affairs of mortal men

8

Just waxing here but…

What death could not be classified in some convoluted sense of suicide? If death is a function of choices, meaning there is no strict upper bound of age-to-live then could we accept that people are continuously making choices which inevitably lead to earlier death. Why can’t the overweight Big Mac eater be classified as committing suicide?

9

“I cannot see any reason why the law must allow people to kill themselves.”

… Because its their lives?

There’s no reason the law MUST do anything, but it is also implied in the right to life that there is a right to death unless you consider that rights are things which man must be forced into an cannot break. The idea that people have control over their own lives but at the same time can end them is ridiculous

10

“Because its their lives?”

I don’t find this particularly compelling. I believe in God and that all life comes from God, therefore one sins against God when one kills oneself. I see no reason to allow anyone to do this.

“but it is also implied in the right to life that there is a right to death”

Not to me it isn’t. Your right to life isn’t also a right to commit a sin.

“The idea that people have control over their own lives but at the same time can end them is ridiculous”

Just because people have control over their lives doesn’t mean we have to allow them to do immoral things.

11

“If death is a function of choices”

Death is not a function of choices, death is inevitable, no one can choose not to die.

“Why can’t the overweight Big Mac eater be classified as committing suicide?”

There is a question of intent here. Does the person eating a Big Mac do so to prematurely end their own life?

12

“I believe in God and that all life comes from God”

Ah, /discussion. There is no rebuttle to this that doesn’t get incredibly off topic.

13

… Because its their lives?

Whoever has the guns is right. This is bloom’s legal theory in a nutshell.

14

@Bloom:

death can be inevitable and still be a function of choices the same way sun burning can be inevitable but still a function of what choices you make. Inevitability is not a disqualifier of choice. What i really mean here is that death is not like boiling water, there is no predetermined boiling point, it is a function of choices (both yours and others)

Now, you could have fun poking holes in my not-so thought out analogies but you get my point.

15

“Inevitability is not a disqualifier of choice.”

Agreed

EDIT: It is a limiter of choice though.

“What i really mean here is that death is not like boiling water, there is no predetermined boiling point, it is a function of choices (both yours and others)”

Also agreed although I do think that the amount of control one has over one’s death is not always that much. Bad things can happen.

Either way, I think the defining characteristic of suicide is not just that one dies or even that one dies prematurely but that one intentionally ends one’s own life.

For example, putting a gun in my mouth and blowing my brains out is different from accidentally falling off a high roof and hitting my head.

16

You forgot Bloom’s theory of ethics. Sinning against God is immoral. Then you combine that with his legal theory, which is might makes right.

And you get something like this.

Whoever has the guns is doing God’s work.

17

What a silly response. But who knows, maybe in your mind you believe that laws can stop people from doing it somehow.

18

“But who knows, maybe in your mind you believe that laws can stop people from doing it somehow.”

Laws don’t tell people what they can and cannot do. So obviously people can still kill themselves even if it’s illegal.

19

May I ask what the point of your comment was then? A lot of your posts seem to show you have a difficult time thinking for yourself.

20

“May I ask what the point of your comment was then?”

The law can only say what is allowed and what is not allowed it cannot tell people what they can and cannot do.