Praxeology, psychology, PCT and modeling the economy

In Human Action L.von Mises says people are purposefull. Their actions are regulated from inside, by their goals and wishes. In H. Hazlitt’s Economics in one lesson there is a passage that compares people with steam machine governors - negative feedback systems.

Psychology has taken a different direction. Biheviorism says human actions are determined by stimuly from outside. Cognitivism is not much different - the causality is stil linear - behevior is the result of processing information (stimuly) in order to behave. Those ideas are not compatible with the notion of purpose in human action.

The mechanism Hazlitt proposed as a metafor for human funcioning was also proposed by many people, notably Norbert Weiner in his book Cybernetics. With development of control systems theory (the study of servomechanisms; like the steam-machine governor) there have been may attempts to find the right architecture that would be able to describe human action. In 1960. a fundamental paper of this new control theroy was published (Powers, Clark & McFarland: General feedback theory of human behavior). In 1973. WT Powers published a book called Behavior: The Control of Perception in wich he described a theory he has been developing for fifteen years.

Models and simulations Powers developed and ran on a computer showed to be very acurate descriptions and predictions of human behavior in a variety of tasks.

Richard Marken has developed several models of 'homo economicus" and behavior of people in economy that you can take a look at at his site: http://www.mindreadings.com/economics.htm

More information about Perceptual control theory (or PCT for short) can be found on www.livingcontrolsystems.com

This has been said so many times, praxeology does not for a second state how human beings form their value preferences. So sure, let’s say that all human preferences are caused by external stimuli, all that praxeology says is that human beings then act in order to fulfill these preferences.

Praxeology isn’t hard, it doesn’t say how preferences are formed, but it does say what man will do as a result of these preferences and pieces of knowledge, and that is act on them. We can therefore predict what will happen when humans are put into certain situations in a certain manner (such as a market society or a socialist society).

If the reason that people arrange their preference because of outside influences then fine, they will act to fulfill these desires. It does not invalidate a single praxeological theorem.

It apears we have a missunderstanding.

I’m not saying psychology of today is right, I’m saying Mises, Hazlitt and Powers are right. People are purpusefull and the mechanism that enables purpose is the feedback loop.

The mechanism that enables purpose is incompatible with linear causation. If stimuly cause responses, than there is nothing a person can do when confronted with a same stimulus in the same situation but the same thing as the last time. People don’t behave that way. It’s the same end (purpose) and every time various means to get to that end.

It’s not that there are no stimuly, it that they are not the sole cause of events.

Of course.

If psychology could predict, then economy could predict. They use the same tools - statistics. They bet.

Logic is a better tool. And the best tool is modeling. We just need a right model of a human being. Hazlitt new it, meny people new it, Powers developed mathematical analysis and computer simulations.

AMatic,

Glad we are on the same page in many respects.

SO we agree that people do things because they wish to get their goals and wishes [=the action axiom]. And that the path they will take to get to their goals and wishes depends on what is out there in the real world that can get them to their goal [=common sense and modern psychology]. And that Mises and Hazlitt agree to both those statements as well. And that modern psycholgy is reduced to absurdity unless it accepts the action axiom [=proven by the fire alarm story].

That being the case, I don’t see how Mises and Hazlitt are in conflict with the psychology of today.

If I understood corectly, Mises did not want to confront psychologists but imagined praxeology as a paralel science. Psychology is good for statistics about current states, for study of culutral differences and things like that, but it is not good for predicting behavior of individual people. It might be good for betting, but that’s different.

Psychologist, on the other hand, think they can predict behavior while ignoring purpuse and focusing only on stimuly and resposes.

What Perceptual Control Theory gives is a mechanism by wich purpuseful action is produced.

The mechanism is not new - it’s negative feedback (featured in the steam machine governor; as Hayek noticed, it resembles humans). Negative feeback is used to bring a certain variable at a certain state and keep it there. That means controling a variable.

Since all variables are subjective - that is, they are percieved - behavior can only be control of perception. The subjective theory of value says the same thing - all values are subjective. It’s not only values, everything is subjective.

The control systems inside humans are not just abstract hypothetical constructs - the nervous system is organised in a hierarchy of negative feedback loops. Evidence from neurology studys backs these claims.

Control (or systems) theory, a branch of mathematics used to describe the functioning of mechanical and electrical feedback loops can be used to describe neural loops and human behavior very precicely and accurately as has been shown in a lot of experiments. Not just that, but models of simple behavior can be used to predict behavior in new situations.

It’s a big theory. It describes all behavior, has a connection to neural basis, there are applications for managment, psychotherapy and economics, among other things.

Psychology has taken a different direction. Biheviorism says human actions are determined by stimuly from outside. Cognitivism is not much different - the causality is stil linear - behevior is the result of processing information (stimuly) in order to behave. Those ideas are not compatible with the notion of purpose in human action.

You need to read Mises again. Those ideas are absolutely compatible with praxeology and human action. Action is the result of rational calculation on the part of an individual observing the present and trying to anticipate future events. It doesn’t matter whether the desires are internal or external in origin, just that a human being’s intellect is applied with the aim of solving a problem, or as Mises would say, “removing felt uneasiness.”

**Edit: Read some of your other replies, it seems we may be on a similar page. I also may have misunderstood your descriptions of behaviourism and cognitivism.

Starting to read through Human Action and that’s my own understanding as well. Psychology, neuroscience, etc.. and praxeology are compatible and simply describe different layers. Even if we are basically physics simulations it wouldn’t change anything because the result of those processes would be the same in the way we respond to incentives and seek to “fulfill” our programming the same way as if we had souls. We’re evaluating purposeful behavior as a black box and while the mechanics underneath can help illuminate why certain choices are made, it doesn’t change the fact that people act in a purposeful way. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong but that’s how I’m understanding it so far.

You need to read Mises again. Those ideas are absolutely compatible with praxeology and human action. Action is the result of rational calculation on the part of an individual observing the present and trying to anticipate future events. It doesn’t matter whether the desires are internal or external in origin, just that a human being’s intellect is applied with the aim of solving a problem, or as Mises would say, “removing felt uneasiness.”

**Edit: Read some of your other replies, it seems we may be on a similar page. I also may have misunderstood your descriptions of behaviourism and cognitivism.

Looks like my english is not as good as I thought. :smiley:

Mises didn’t really go into details exploring the ways humans function. Behaviorism in his day didn’t approve of the concept of “purpose” so he just went the other way without confronting psychologists. Behaviorists rejected purpose, and cognitive psychologists don’t know what purpose or goals might be in the brain, and there are a lot of small theories of goals and motivation. All wrong.

Starting to read through Human Action and that’s my own understanding as well. Psychology, neuroscience, etc.. and praxeology are compatible and simply describe different layers. Even if we are basically physics simulations it wouldn’t change anything because the result of those processes would be the same in the way we respond to incentives and seek to “fulfill” our programming the same way as if we had souls. We’re evaluating purposeful behavior as a black box and while the mechanics underneath can help illuminate why certain choices are made, it doesn’t change the fact that people act in a purposeful way. Someone could correct me if I’m wrong but that’s how I’m understanding it so far.

Psychology is not compatible with neuroscience :smiley:

There has to be a connection (in a good theory) between every layer, just like there a connection between quantum mechanics, chemistry and phisics.