I do, but such a dispute should be handled through a dispute resolution / tort, not by armed conflict on anyone’s part. A settlement dispute is at its heart a property dispute and should be handled as one. If the mediator hands it over to the Israelis, fine, if the Palestinians, fine.
But if the Palestinian territories are then used to lob missiles at the Israelis, they should defend themselves as humanely as possible.
I was thinking more specifically in regards to the image of the israeli standing in front of a woman, whereas the palestinian was hiding behind a woman. If you truly accept the idea espoused in my earlier comment then surely they should both be behind their respective women, as the civilians in those settlements are basically human shields strapped to the israeli war machine.
As for settling the issue as a property dispute, I believe the international community in the form of the UN votes on this issue almost every year. If we take them to be a valid dispute resolution agency (that is, the diplomatic envoys that make up the UN) the vote is overwhelmingly (usually the world vs the US, Israel and a couple of other nations) in support of ceding the land back to the palestinians. (Back to the 1967 borders)
If we accept this as a valid resolution, what is a legitimate response when the losing party in such a resolution continues to militarily hold on to the property that the commonly accepted dispute resolution agency has found to not be their legitimate property?
Yeah, because the media is so anti-Israel. It just can’t stop criticizing them. Just like everyone in the US Government is always hating on them. So unfair.
First of all I don’t care who “owned” the land “historically”, it is 2012 now. So Arabs and Jews have to prove their ownership with Libertarian homesteading, with documentation and such. It is likely that both Arabs and Jewish people own a lot of land legitimately, to say neither does is untruthful.
Violation of the NAP is determined on a case-by-case basis, so stop worrying about which side is right.
“This is false. There are Israeli Arabs, of which some are Christian and some are Muslim. There are Mulsims in the Israeli parliament. Undoubtedly non-Jews (especially Israeli Muslims and non-Israeli Muslims) are second class citizens”
Keyword being second class citizens. But the fact remains that the Israeli state is for only the Jewish, so either those muslims and christians are Uncle Toms or rebels working from the inside.
Afu Agbaria is in the Knesset and tried to get Israel tried in the international criminal court, because of nonstop attacks on Arab neighbors.
Mohammad Barakeh worked to get Israel to let go of Gaza and the West Bank.
Haneen Zoabi is a Muslim woman in the Knesset, but she opposes the idea of a Jewish state. She has said it is ‘inherently racist’, and that Netanyahu et al. are “a bunch of fascists pure and simple.” She claims to be Palestinian and not a Zionist. Btw, doesn’t wear a burka or headcovering.
Taleb El-Sana criticized Israel so much, that the Jerusalem Post argued that he should be deported like Abraham Lincoln deported people during the Civil War.
Raleb Najadele refused to sing the national anthem, because it is expressly promotes only Hebrew-speaking Jewish culture. He also claims that Israel is a Jewish state.
Clearly there are non-Jewish Israelis, so you really ought to support this with more than just irrelevant claims. So what that some Arab Israelis criticize the state? So what that some newspaper criticizes them back? That happens in America too, and any claim that America is only for Christians or white males is absurd. The situation in Israel sucks, but please stop with this dishonesty.
This. It’s amazing how some libertarians on this board suddenly want to talk about the conflict in terms of collectivism instead of applying methodological individualism. It’s fucking weird.
Breitbart is a site for a delusional pro-war and heavily zionist neocons.
To say the media is anti-Israel is so idiotic it is not even worth discussing. Their problem is that they are butthurt by even discussion that is common within Israel. Because neocons are more zionist than even Israeli citizens. HAlf of them are end of the world Christian nuts, and the others are cynical imperialists.
To your other point. I didn’t say America was only for white people. but it is not controversial that Israel is a Jewish state. Even people who like Israel say it. They have a star of David to symbolize it, and their claim is based on religious ideology. The ‘problem of demographics’ is constantly discussed, meaning too many non-Jews is a problem as is intermarriage. Jews from anywhere in the world are collectivisticly given ‘rights to land’. It’s not even a point of contention.
Anyone have an opinion about my question above? I’ve just heard a ceasefire has been reached. I just don’t get why Hillary and other outsiders showing up to “broker” all of a sudden to makes the Israelis and Palestinians willing to stop killing each other.
This comic is over the top, but I do think that in addition to there being a very strong anti-Arab and pro-Israeli bias in the media, there is also a clear, if far less consequential anti-Israeli bias emmanating from certain corners (the most bleeding heart liberal internationalists).
Is anyone familiar with a war where civilians were spared or mostly spared? I just have a real hard time convincing my Israeli libertarian friends that it is possible to do more to safeguard the civilian population in Gaza other than what Israel already does (phone calls, leaflets, accurate bombs, etc…)
This is the game the pro-Palestinian people play, equating numbers killed with moral legitimacy. I’m surprised someone steeped in libertarian concepts of justice and the NAP can actually parrot this with a straight face.
Numbers matter not at all, what matters is justice. We, of all people, should know that, being political minorities to the extreme, but being the only group promoting justice as a guiding principle for society, and believing that numbers do not make right in our fight against the idea that democracy and majority vote makes anything ethical done against the minority.
Israel does not want to harm innocents in protecting itself. The Palestinians use this fact against them and place their military installations near civilian targets.
Palestinians want to harm Israeli innocents, just witness the bus bombing this morning.
And every time conflict flares up, it’s Palestinians initiating violence. How can you defend these terrorist groups that have no respect for innocents, not even their own, and certainly no concept of the NAP.
The Palestinians, from a wider view the conflict, are a religious and political football, tossed continually against Israel as part of a religious and ideological war, an attempt by Muslims in general to recapture physical and political control of Jerusalem. They are a living pretext for proxy war. And I will not reward that cynical use of an entire population with support, ever.
" I am not contesting that it is a Jewish state. I am contesting your claim that “it is only for the Jewish.”
There is no difference. It is there to promote them as a nationalism and collective identity. And this goal is worth all of the conflict and hatred and violence and everything else, just like all nationalism brings into existence. There is no purpose in Israel for non-Jews, except to serve the Jews and the Jewish nation-state. Jews are the ‘real population’ and ruling class. No one else matters.
I definitely have to disagree with you Anenome, Isreal is clearly the aggressor. They are the ones that are destroying homes and erecting massive walls. How can you not see that the people in gaza are trying to defend their own land? After the second world war the jews created isreal an illegitimate state. They then went on a rampage of ethnic cleansing which has resulted in the current situation of apartheid. From the information that I have come across the Israelis are brutal to say the least.
I am not specifically for gaza or against Isreal i am fairly impartial in this and dislike all religions equally including judaism. But to try and make out as if isreal are the victims is ridiculous. Israel is a military state that lives in a state of war. They live for it and they take great pleasure in their brutality. Listening to some of the Israeli speak about Palestinians it is difficult to think otherwise.
At this point Palestine is pretty much destroyed, they have had sanctions and restrictions placed on to them for decades by the isreali state. Have you seen the wall? Do you think if people in say a district of New York started firing rockets at another part of the city the US government would be within the right to build a massive wall and subject everyone within the vicinity to brutal measures?
I think it’s because America actually has leverage on both sides. Both sides accept large amounts of money and support from us, etc. And neither really wants us mad at them.
I’m more concerned about seeing people express pro-Palestinian views than anti-Israeli views on this issue, because I think there are major problems on both sides for someone who believes in liberty, but to dismiss Palestinian aggression is particularly evil to me as someone who holds the NAP as a core value.
It’s not about Israeli occupation when viewed in a wider historical context. That’s mere pretext. It’s about Arab ego and muslim religion claiming Jerusalem, which as a Jewish city vastly, vastly! predates the creation of Islam.