Rationality in Society

The argument essentially is the definition, especially given the extremely aprioristic nature of it. The claims X, Y, and Z all hinge on none other than the question-begging definition that has been established.

There is actually no question begged. That people may behave irrationally according to your standard has no bearing on essential Austrian premises. In fact, the Austrian “definition” of rationality is the only objective standard, and that is that all non-instinctual human action is rational. If you want to redefine the word rational, that’s fine, but then don’t expect rational to be relevant to Austrian economics anymore.

All that you’ve done here is basically re-assert the definition and then claim the status of objectivity. Not only do we run into the obvious problem at the semantic level that there is no such thing as an objective definition, but we’re left with a simple assertion (“all non-instinctual human action is rational”). How is this assertion proved? Via appeal to the definition. We’re left with a circle.

Since Austrian methodology is so extreme aprioristic, it can do little more than define its terms arbitrarily and then make deductions.

All that you’ve done here is basically re-assert the definition and then claim the status of objectivity.

Okay, so what’s your specific argument? Can you make a case that is substantiated? Otherwise, this debate isn’t going to progress beyond, “you’re wrong, because I say so.”

Mises’s definition of rationality is based on an observation of human behavior (well, this is a more Rothbardian premise). It actually is not Misesian; mainstream economists call it “thinking on the margin”. It doesn’t try to put value on human action, rather it suggests that all non-instectual human action is the process of reason (or that individual market agents weigh benefits and costs prior to each action taken, not specifying to what degree of rigour each cost-benefit analysis is made).

Re-defining “rationality” as something which makes logical sense within your own subjective cost-benefit analysis has no implication on the validity of Austrian economics, because this definition is fundamentally different from that of Mises.

You have been posting in these forums for quite a long time. You know exactly what Austians mean when they use the term. You obviously think that the term does not fit the meaning. Fair enough. But pointing out that it is a misuse of the word is not a valid attack of the ideas with which the term was used to represent. It’s the essense of a Stawman. You use “W” in a way that was neither stated not implied, and think that somehow that invalidates X, Y and Z.

Replace “rational” with “blue”, and define “blue” in exactly the same manner that Austians define rational, and not the normal, Brain Police approved definition. Is the Austrian argument of “Blue Action” somehow invalidated because “blue” is a color and not normally used in this manner?

I basically deny that the weighing of costs and benefits works as a universalizable description of non-instinctual human action. My evidence is basically everything the field of psychology has been doing since the 19th century ended. To be frank, I think Austrians are guilty of the fallacy of the homo economicus.

As for re-defining rationality, I find the use of this phrase to be loaded, especially considering that, as I initially said, it is the Austrians who have re-defined rationality relative to common linguistic practise.

Absolutely. For some reason, Austrians don’t realize they’re doing an elaborate circle jerk with synonymy.

To get back to the broader issue, Tyler Cowen has an interesting paper titled “How Do Economists Think About Rationality?”

I basically deny that the weighing of costs and benefits works as a universalizable description of non-instinctual human action. My evidence is basically everything the field of psychology has been doing since the 19th century ended.

Okay, and what evidence is this?

As for re-defining rationality, I find the use of this phrase to be loaded, especially considering that, as I initially said, it is the Austrians who have re-defined rationality relative to common linguistic practise.

You are missing the point. Whatever definition is re-definition is irrelevant, because we are talking about the definition relevant to Austrian economics. I’m not sure what’s so difficult to understand here.

For some reason, Austrians don’t realize they’re doing an elaborate circle jerk with synonymy.

What does this even mean?

I basically deny that the weighing of costs and benefits works as a universalizable description of non-instinctual human action. My evidence is basically everything the field of psychology has been doing since the 19th century ended, and any mundane experience any individual has of life. To be frank, I think Austrians are often guilty of the fallacy of the homo economicus.

As for re-defining rationality, I find the use of this phrase to be loaded, especially considering that, as I initially said, it is the Austrians who have re-defined rationality relative to common linguistic practise. While one may wish to brush aside all other usages as “subjective”, the Austrian usage is no more “objective”. The main difference is that the Austrians are making a much broader claim (placing all purposeful decisions in the “rational” box) while maintaining the pretense of neutrality. But I suspect that the main function or purpose of this definition is essentially a trump card to pull out in response to any counter-example presented to one’s ideology, which makes it quite “subjective” if you ask me.

I completely agree. So? It does not invalidate their argument. They (poorly) chose a word to describe thier ideas. They were also pretty damn clear about what those ideas are. Why not attack their ideas rather than quibble about their misuse of a word?

I have quite a bit of respect for you. The fact that I disagree with you 90% of the time does not matter. You make me think, and re-evaluate my own positions, and come up with better arguments, and for that, I thank you. Because of that, I think you are (or should be) above petty, and ultilimately insignifivant, definitions arguments. You’re better than that.

Probably more blatant trolling.

In Austrian economics as it has been developed through Mises ‘rationality’ is synonymous with ‘goal-directed conduct.’

It is a formal definition with no reference to the particular goal sought and no reference to the means utilized.

It is not the same conception of rationality as that used by objective/normative ethics and objective/normative moral theories.

The notion that the Austrian definition of rationality might be trivial or meaningless probably rests on the premise that tautologies are ‘empty’ or meaningless. But tautologies need not be considered empty or meaningless.

24 = 2 x 12 = 4 x 6 = 3 x 8 is tautological. But three groups of eight may not be immediately apparent upon an apprehension of twenty four.

Logical or tautological reasoning fleshes out the implications of given suppositions, and these implications are important for action and life.

Aprioristic reasoning is purely conceptual and deductive. It cannot produce anything else but tautologies and analytic judgments. All its implications are logically derived from the premises and were already contained in them. Hence, according to a popular objection, it cannot add anything to our knowledge.

All geometrical theorems are already implied in the axioms. The concept of a rectangular triangle already implies the theorem of Pythagoras. This theorem is a tautology, its deduction results in an analytic judgment. Nonetheless nobody would contend that geometry in general and the theorem of Pythagoras in particular do not enlarge our knowledge. Cognition from purely deductive reasoning is also creative and opens for our mind access to previously barred spheres. The significant task of aprioristic reasoning is on the one hand to bring into relief all that is implied in the categories, concepts, and premises and, on the other hand, to show what they do not imply. It is its vocation to render manifest and obvious what was hidden and unknown before. (Human Action)

In the Misesian conception, just as mathematics expounds the tautological implications of 24, praxeology expounds the tautological implications of goal-directed conduct or rationality or intentionality or human action (all terms here considered synonymous).

“The analytic method is simply a way of discovering necessary consequences of complex collocations of facts—consequences whose counterpart in reality is not so immediately discernible as the counterpart of the original postulates. It is an instrument for “shaking out” all the implications of given suppositions. Granted the correspondence of its original assumptions and the facts, its conclusions are inevitable and inescapable.”

(Robbins, An Essay on the Nature & Significance of Economic Science)

In Austrian economics, at least in the Misesian interpretation, the fundamental original assumption is that an actor faces a situation that he is attempting to replace with a different situation. The attempt to change the situation he is confronted with to a different situation is called ‘rational action’ or simply “rationality.” The study of the formal implications of rational action results in a science of ‘given relations.’ which means a science that instructs on what must accompany a given situation should it occur. E.g., the law of marginal utility expressing a relationship between an actor coming into a supply or unit of supply, and a ‘value’ experience that accompanies his coming into that supply.

Normative ethics, whether of the state, of the right, or of the left, must attack praxeology and value-free social science (usually disparaged as ‘utilitarianism’) because these provide a comprehensive framework for understanding social phenomena while not offering any support to the normative conclusions and “objective” values that the state, the right, or the left, want to enforce.

Value-free social science is seen as an enemy by objective and normative ethics, since value-free science is a rival paradigm that explains social phenomena comprehensively with no room left for classifying those with whom we disagree as immoral, evil, and criminal.

“Bewildered, people had to face a new view of society. They learned with stupefaction that there is another aspect from which human action might be viewed than that of good and bad, of fair and unfair, of just and unjust.”

“Human action and social cooperation seen as the object of a science of given relations, no longer a normative discipline of things that ought to be—this was a revolution of tremendous consequences for knowledge and philosophy as well as for social action.”

(Human Action)

In Austrian methodology, circular reasoning is championed; synonyms are exchanged for one another, endlessly switching positions but without knowledge being generated.

For instance, let’s try to be more precise; you claim that “all non-instinctual human action is rational.” What specifically qualifies “instinctual” behavior? Furthermore, how does one know that one’s behavior was not automatic or instinctual?

At least I linked to a respected economist’s paper on “rationality.”

You… well, once again, you didn’t add anything.

Oke; can you give us some evidence of this ‘everything in the field of psychology’?

And can you give us an alternative description of (some) non-instinctual human action that doesn’t fit ‘costs and benefits’?

In Austrian methodology, circular reasoning is championed; synonyms are exchanged for one another, endlessly switching positions but without knowledge being generated.

What circular reasoning is that? Is it reasoning relevant to this discussion? Please, add some substance to your comments.

By the way, linking to papers doesn’t substantiate your argument (this is especially true in regards to Cowen’s paper, which added nothing which hasn’t already been said). Can you please substantiate in your own words?

For instance, let’s try to be more precise; you claim that “all non-instinctual human action is rational.” What specifically qualifies “instinctual” behavior? Furthermore, how does one know that one’s behavior was not automatic or instinctual?

What does this have to do with circular reasoning?

Non-instinctual behavior is pre-meditated behavior, while instinctual behavior is behavior based on human instinct (instinct usually being defined as something produced from our nervous system, or an automatic reaction by our brain, as opposed to reason [which is still biological, in any case]).

You… well, once again, you didn’t add anything.

He actually is. He’s adding valuable quality control, because your first response was tantamount to trolling.

This is a nice knee jerk-reaction. Why do you give such a response?

Why would it be relevant for the development of austrian economics if wether or not at a certain instance it’s not clear certain behavior is ‘automatic’ or ‘instinctual’?

I’m on a website populated by hundreds if not thousands of papers and articles on Misesian conceptions of rationality. I don’t need to drop sources for something every reasonably competent Austrian (or critic) already understands.

It’s relevant insofar as a proponent of Austrian economics (e.g., Jon Catalan) includes the detail in his defense of rational behavior. Furthermore, the distinction is prominent in Mises’s own writings.