It does all come down to rights if you believe in rights/natural rights. Person A believes rights are one thing person B believes that they are another, one believes that chicago is in America, the other in Japan, it is a disagreement about the nature of rights, just as there can be a disagreement over mathematical principals.
I have yet to witness any attempt to actually deduce a set of “natural rights” without any appeal to consequences.
Heh, this isn’t really about ignorance, but a funny misunderstanding.
I asked for “Introduction to Economic Reasoning” and “Economics in One Lesson” for Christmas. My dad just called and said “Hey, those economics books are about Austria…” I explained to him that they aren’t about Austria, their thought just comes from Austria/Austrian people. I sent him links to buy it from the mises.org store so he must’ve gotten “Austrian” from the site.
Craziest Website ever. Written by a court intellectual who is a politics professor by occupation.
http://www.governmentisgood.com/articles.php?aid=18
Here are some sample quotes from it :-
"The political right’s ability to convince many Americans that there is an inevitable trade-off between government and freedom has been one of its greatest ideological victories. In one stroke, it renders illegitimate virtually all liberal policy initiatives. Any effort to expand social programs or increase regulation becomes seen as an attack on freedom. If you value freedom, it is argued, you should strongly oppose any increase in public sector activity. If you love freedom, you should hate government. "
“Without a whole host of government rules, capitalism could not exist. Even regulations and social programs help sustain a market economy by fixing many of its serious social and economic problems”
"Property Rights. Without the right to own property and dispose of it as you wish, capitalism as we know it could not exist. These rights are created and protected by the government. "
“Widespread commerce and a stable economy both require a stable and dependable money system – one in which consumers and merchants have faith. This can only be provided and maintained by the federal government”
“But conservatives are dead wrong about taxes. Taxes are not bad.Taxes are good. The argument for taxes is a very straightforward one: if government is on balance a very positive force in society, then taxes are good. If what we have seen in other articles on this site is true – that government programs help us all in myriad ways everyday, that most government programs are working effectively to solve our societal problems, and that government is the only way to promote important values like justice and economic security – then the taxes needed to support these government activities should be seen as a positive good. To put it another way, you can’t support the things the government does – like caring for the elderly, establishing justice, providing public education, fighting terrorism, and protecting the environment – and still maintain that the taxes that support those things are bad. Taxes are the lifeblood of government and so if government is basically good, then so are taxes”
" Or so it seems. But things are not always as they seem. In reality, this view of the relationship between freedom and government is incomplete, distorted, and often wrong. It relies almost entirely on a misleading stereotype: government as “Big Brother.” But if we can step back and look at the performance of our democratic government in a more objective and less dogmatic way, we begin to see that many of the basic conservative and libertarian assumptions about government and freedom are mistaken."
I’m wondering if this site is a joke .This person CANNOt be truly serious.It’s like all the statist fallacies in one place.
With the increasing power of world government agencies or those that springboard that way, such as the UN, the role of the EU, meetings such as all the G-(whatever #), up-coming Copenhegan meeting, an expansionist role of NATO, the increased central bank coordination globally, WHO, etc… I don’t doubt an increase in statist arguments will happen. There will be people that claw to hold onto the individual country. And though lovers of liberty are against rulers in any form, liberty lovers are and have always been threats to statists that can’t comprehend optimism in human nature. Statist always want to pull out the whip. Those quotes you gave show the increased need of statists arguments that may increase, and if they do increase, it will not surprise me.
I have a friend at another message board who I frequently get in heated debates with. It usually ends with us insinuated that we are both going to end up as failures in the future. But we’re always boys again. Recently, I decided to just get to know him a little better via private message. He’s a social democrat. Here’s what he had to say:
The contradiction from one statement to the next was pretty amazing to me. I thought you guys would find it pretty amusing. I decided to just not discuss it further with him, because honestly I don’t care if he ever becomes a libertarian.
I pretty much believe that everyone’s going to be forced to become a libertarian at some point in the future, or at least live in a free society. Hunter gathering didn’t last forever, church-statism didn’t last forever, and so there is no reason to believe that statism in its current form is going to last forever. I think the Internet is going to do to statism what the printing press did to the church.
After debating people for so long and losing friends over it, I’ve become somewhat bitter. I’ll just come gloat to this friend of mine when global events proves libertarians right beyond the shadow of a doubt.
that really is too bad and disheartening to the libertarian -even when I was a statist I didn’t think this badly.
Another sad thing is to hear people be in favor of ending the war because it’s tyranny and then transition into a speech on the glory of healthcare (which is not at alll a case of reverse imperialism). The progressives can be the worst sometimes…
Everyone should direct their liberal friends to the mises.org forums. We’ll tear em up [8o|]
“I decided to just not discuss it further with him, because honestly I don’t care if he ever becomes a libertarian.”
It’s sad to say but some people are just outright lost causes.I always think the least we can do is present an alternative and make people think.If a few people agree with anything we say that counts as a minor victory for us.The war issue amazes me.People continue to believe it’s just and to spread democratic even after everything.It seems like under Obama it’s gotten worse.Those who opposed the war under Bush now seem to think it’s just under Obama,Though thankfully their remains those who dissent still .Another thing I’ve noticed is how brainwashed people involved with the Military are including service people’s families.I guess people need to believe that what their loved one’s are fighting for is right and worthwhile to avoid cognitive dissodance.
I hate to say it but you’ll only be “tearing 'em up” in your own mind, and, of course, to the rest of us. Unfortunately, these people are extremely skilled in their ability to outright miss the point or to change the subject.
I say fuck 'em, when the dollar collapses and these State-lovers lose all their savings, I’d rather just be there to laugh in their face while I tell them to thank their new-found poverty on their own love of State power. I know that’s kinda hateful, but I feel that way more often than not lately.
Snow Flake ANGRY
Yea I’m afraid that Liberals are the ones most skilled at winning in mental Judo against their reason if you understand me.
Seriously I’ve had liberals tell me that there was mass starvation before welfare, that government is for the good of the many over the few and that an example of this is WELFARE, that there was a seriouse movment to impeach bush and that the only reason that he wasn’t was that it was “too expensive” (LMAO after Clinton almost getting impeached), that an example of taxes working is south africa and an example of a lack of taxes making things worse was India (WTF India is thriving and south africa is approaching a state of utter chaos), that taxes are directly linked with living standards, the U.S education system was top notch (After I heard him an his democrat friends bitching about no child left behind), and that because helthcare costs went UP after government intervention we need more in the industry and he denied just about every aspect of the proposed plan (going to cost 1 trillion dollars, he claimed it was going to be offered only to those with serious medical conditions, and that it would restrict private industry)
At leas conservatives have things like god, jesus, and real nationalism to lean back on.
Thanks for posting this. I listened to quite a few of these yesterday.
Molyneux has a very no nonsense way of explaining complex ideas. I think my girlfriend had an aha! moment or two…
His speaking style is also well suited IMO, to persuading others. He has a positive attitude and I love how he laughs while stating thing which are obviously false. Laughing really drives home the point that it is so silly that anyone should understand.
Great stuff!