Schiff: Is he right?

As a non-expert in the matter, I don’t know how finally to determine how correct Peter Schiff is when he predicts calamity for the U.S. economy due to a future collapse of the dollar.

The argument he posits about the fundamentals of the U.S. economy - namely, those described in the “six Asians and an American are stranded on an island” analogy - strikes me as quite persuasive.

At bottom, the accuracy of Mr. Schiff’s prediction seems to hinge on the likelihood that foreign debtors will change their minds about further lending to the United States.

Thus, how likely is it that, sometime in the relatively near term, foreign lenders will stop lending to the U.S.?

[For those who haven’t heard this analogy: Six Asians and an American are stranded on an island. The first day, they divide up responsibilities. The American is assigned to eating. One of the Asians is assigned to fishing, another to foraging, yet another to hunting, etc. At the end of each day, they gather on the beach, where the American eats the food produced by all the Asians, leaving enough crumbs for the Asians to eat and be able to go back out the next day for more food.

Economists (ahem, NON-AUSTRIAN economists) would look at this situation and conclude “Hey, without the American, the island economy would surely collapse, because without his demand for food, none of the Asians would have a job.” Of course, in reality, the island economy would in no way collapse, Indeed, the standard of living for each Asian would immediately increase dramatically if they were to boot the American from the island.]

Dollars have a use: Dollars, and only dollars, buy oil.

Counter-intuitive that the US empire is built on OPEC, isn’t it? All of America’s arch-enemies just happen to be countries that own oil and want to sell it for euros: Iraq, Iran, Venezuela.

This is one good reason, it seems, to argue why the dollar will survive.

But are there are also good reasons to believe that the dollar may not survive. If the fundamentals of our “frankenstein” economy are as bad as Mr. Schiff claims, for instance, and we really CAN’T pay our creditors back, why in the world would they keep throwing money at us?

Of course Schiff is right.

The world is going to realize that they have been duped by America and other currencies will become accepted as payment for oil. OPEC countries are already working to establish oil bourses that trade in Euros.

An excellent explaination is provided here: http://www.energybulletin.net/node/12125

Dude, this article is from 2006. And I’m not surprised its predictions failed to materialize - the author’s tone is deeply cynical and way out of proportion to the degree of evidence he (fails to) provides.

They have partially materialized. The Iranian Oil Bourse is not yet trading crude in Euros. Already the US is considering military action in Iran.

The only prediction that has not yet materialized is the collapse of the dollar, and there are many good reasons to believe that this will occur soon.

What do you think are the most predominant factors that will cause this?

I have to go to bed now. I’ll respond tomorrow.

You don’t need me to tell you this. There are many article on this site which put forward very strong reasons and I have little doubt you are aware of them. It feels like you are quizzing me to test my knowledge and I am not going to indulge you and waste my time typing them out.

Ron Paul reaches the same conclusions on many of the issues dealt with by that article in this speech:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm

You are right on spot here, nothing would collapse for any asian :slight_smile:

The argument that only dollars buy oil is useless. At the moment dollars buy oil because the US can, backed by their military power, force it. But looking at Iran you can see that this is already shifting. Once the stretch of the US forces become unbearable, in monetary terms, you will see those “unconditional” allies flee the ship and sell their oil for whatever it can be sold for.

Much to Morbo’s dismay, Iran has recently bought a LOT of gold to use as reserves.

Ding, ding!! Anyone willing to praise articles like the one you praise and link to above usually - and you prove yourself be among them - have little clue what they are talking about and will believe all kinds of drivel. That article, while containing some truths, is rife with fantastic assertions and all but completely void of evidence for them. It’s quite ridiculous, actually.

So the threat of military force is the only thing that stands in the way of the world abandoning the dollar? What if the world is simply ignorant that it would actually be better off without the dollar? It’s a Keynsian world…maybe most of the decisionmakers around the globe are blinded to the problems with the dollar because they are Keynsians and think our economy is sound.

Sorry, I don’t follow. You mean it signals a lack of intention to move to the Euro? To me, it seems if anything that they are preparing for a move to an international gold standard. But I am only guessing at this because I haven’t been following all of this closely.

No, Morbo isn’t a big fan of gold. He thinks people overvalue it. Just a dumb yellow rock.

Ah.

If not the military threat I would be interested to learn what you think could be a reasonable basis for the world to stay with the “current” US currency?

I do not believe in stupidity when it comes to business so I ask for a reasonable idea.

Sorry, I don’t follow. It seems - though I can’t tell for sure - that you disagree with my thesis that (1) it’s a Keynsian world and that, therefore (2) Keynsian decisionmakers around the globe are simply ignorant of the likelihood that the U.S. economy is fundamentally unsound.

In this regard, I certainly DO believe in stupidity, if by “stupidity” you mean ignorance of Keynsian decisionmakers. The “reasonableness” of my thesis, I believe, is testified to with every Fed interest-rate cut and every government bailout package. Clearly, Keynsianism thrives in America. I see no reason why the rest of the world would be much different. I see no good reason to conclude that American policymakers have a monopoly on “stupidity” / ignorance.

Bob Murphy has daily articles on this site about why he disagrees with Schiff’s analysis of the trade deficit. I suggest starting here. His conclusions are that manufacturing can be overrated and that perpetual, sustainable, and healthy trade deficits are possible.

This is a large part of the dollar argument. Schiff contends that Americans spend borrowed money on consumption, not investment, and thus will be unable to repay. When this day comes, the dollar will be pushed to hyperinflationary levels.

I don’t know. What if our debtors intend to be paid back in military aid, not money? We could produce that.

Just think about this; if the world were to abandon the dollar, what would replace it? Another fiat currency? If the biggest and suposedly most reliable fiat currency just crashed, wouldn’t the market be hesitant to accept another? Gold? Possible, but it’d be a huge transition. There would also be large shifts in purchasing power. Plus there are attempts to prevent this by governments and central banks. Finally, there’s the 50+ years of gold bashing in “expert” economic schools.

Basically, it’s not as simple as swapping out dollar IOU’s for “sound” IOU’s. Without dollar hyperinflation, there’s probably too much unacceptable short-term damage in trying to abandon the dollar to establish a long-term money system.

Excellent. Thank you. The winds of reasoned discourse at last begin to fill the sails.

Yes, that is exactly what i mean. You seem to belive that Keysian decisionmakers are ignorant of the fact that the U.S. economy is "fundamentally unsound. You might be right on this. Yet, I like to be on the sure side of an issue. So, I would like to think, that those Keynisian decisionmakers are first “discisionmakers” and second Keynisians. A decisionmaker usually can be thought to be someone who knows what is in for him. If I am wrong with this and he is “just” stupid, it wouldn’t harm me. If I am right and he is a “decision maker” that asks for “what is in for me” I would have to employ other means to “fight” - excuse that martial term- him.

Being right is one thing, another thing is being successful. To be succesfull you have to develop strategies that have the capability to put your “rightness” into something usable.

Bottom line, I would not base a strategy on the belive that all Keyisans are “dumb” and therefor have no clue about the real world. I would rather use the hypothesis -sorry for that positivistic sidemark- that one can act as a Keynesian without beliving what he preaches. This way, my strategy would not suffer from a false assumption regarding the intelligence of my counterpart.

Does that make sense?