Somalia: Libertarian Paradise

[ViennaSausage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0&feature=player_embedded

The video proposes that Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Why is Somalia NOT a libertarian paradise?

[Juan]

Maybe because it’s ruled by tribal warlords ?

[freiheit]

Typical post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

If the video-makers had done some research, they’d find that Somalia is actually growing and improving at a far faster rate than most other African countries. Their last central government really threw them back to the stone age. It’s no surprise they have a much longer climb back up.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1880

http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1861

http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?ID=126

Also, of the level of chaos that does remain, Western powers’ fingerprints are all over it:

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1954

[billott1]

How about because the US has sponsored an Ethiopian invasion?

[hayekianxyz]

Somalia is a great example of anarchism.

Only, it isn’t the hippe, libertine, egalitarian utopia most libertarians are looking for, so they find various reasons to denounce it.

[wilderness]

Also a dash of this:

You Are Being Lied to About Pirates

I’m not saying this isn’t a libertarian, anarchist region, but what I am saying is the State’s don’t like it and they show their dislike.

[wombatron]

This audio may also be of some help (about an hour long).

[Juan]

Somalia has been without a national government since 1991, when Dictator Siad Barre was ousted from power. Somalia plunged into a civil war as rival factions attempted to establish a new government. Interventions by the U.S. and U.N. tended to unite the Somalis against the outsiders, resulting in the famous “Black Hawk Down” episode, and ultimately, the withdrawal of U.S. and U.N. forces.

Once the U.N. withdrew, a relative peace developed in Somalia. Crime and violence persisted, but not at the levels seen during the civil war. Various clan elders, warlords, and Islamic courts had power, but none were strong enough to impose themselves as the new government, and most of the fighting stopped.

So, instead of one ‘national’ government there are small thuggish theocratic governments. Very libertarian.

At best, what somalia illustrates is that the current states are different than the previous national state. Wow. An amazing example of ‘libertarianism’ at work.

[Juan]

The Somalis again have united against this attempt by outsiders to force a government on them.

Uh oh. Not so much anarchy as nationalism…

Unfortunately, the result has been an increase in the power of the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), who, since June, has gained control over much of southern Somalia, including the former capital, Mogadishu.

Uh oh. Why, the nice libertarian theorcratic system of government creates a new state…that’s too bad…

[Sage]

This lecture by Leeson also talks about Somalia. See especially his discussion of “institutional bestness” and different forms of government and anarchy (starting about 2/3’s through).

[Brainpolice]

Juan is right - it isn’t an example of libertarian anything. For a brief period they were nominally anarchist (in the narrow sense of the end of a particular state apparatus), but they are no longer even nominally anarchist, there are tons of foreign influences and they have a number of defacto states.

[eliotn]

@GilesStratton

Somalia is a great example of anarchism.

Only, it isn’t the hippe, libertine, egalitarian utopia most libertarians are looking for, so they find various reasons to denounce it.

Mind if I debate you and comment on this subject? Here goes nothing…

First, look at how well other governments can demonize somalia. Attack properity rights for the coastal waters (overfishing, chemical dumping) when the Somali fishers homesteaded it. When they attack in response, call them pirates. In reality, the Somali pirates are more like Jack Sparrow, and less like ruthless Blackbeard.

Second, what is going on in Somalia?

Third, do you think it would be a good idea to move there if you want to be government free, or is it not really government free, or are there other considerations to take into account?

[Conza]