Has anyone else come to the same conclusion?
Which space hoax are you referring to?
Edit:
Oh. Are you referring to Man landing on the moon?
Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear.
The whole “space” program, all of it, not just the moon movie, all of it in it’s entirety. From the first inexistent moon probes, to the dead astroNots the dozen of people who died when launched to space and hidden from the public, the shuttle scams. It’s was, and is a tax-swindle, they pocket the money and divert it to military/espionage.
The soviet’s never challenged the moon spectacle because they lied even more to their own public! You can research it if you want, there are hundreds of confessions of the people involved.
But my question was a economical one, the soviets showed how great central planning is by telling fairy tails in their controlled media about putting men in space. The americans too, a strong heavily financed central government is needed to advance “science” and they will guide us to new world. They are doing the same with CERN, the message is individuals can not do science, only big governments which billion dollars toys.
Edit: I was clear, I said space hoax, not moon hoax, space hoax means all they tell about space is a hoax, all of it.
I find it very strange that no such discussion takes places here…
I find it hard to believe.
Especially since, not only did the U.S.S.R. have the opportunity to fake it, but given their expertise in propaganda, I’m sure they would’ve faked a Moon landing much earlier than '69 (and they would’ve done it better than the U.S. propaganda machine would allow, or at least before the U.S. ‘faked’ their Moon landing).
They already faked Gagarin.
this is what makes anarchism and libertarianism look like just anohter crackpot religion.. conspiracy nuts. Im disappoint
If you say it was a scam, I agree, totally. Most of you are too young to remember ( ) but back when the STS (Space Shuttle) program was launched by the Nixon Administration (who else?) it was said it would reduce the costs of sending payloads into orbit to “next to zero dollars per pound”. The original aim was to make each launch cost around 10 million dollars. The most recent launches have cost about half a billion dollar each. Even when adjusted for inflation that is more than ten times the original goal. If you want proof of a statist scam, there you have it. Even the usually spending-happy USAF was so frightened by costs they decided to get back to single use launchers like the Delta family of rockets. Single use launchers are much more cost-effective and, if a fault is detected, can be redesigned at a fraction of the cost required to refit a Shuttle if a fault is found.
When the USSR decided to clone the STS in the late '70s there were many in Soviet space program who felt it was just a propaganda stunt. Vladimir Chelomei, one the most bright minds behind the Soviet rocket program and a “political heavyweight”, was strongly against it and so only pennies were allocated. But when Chelomei died an untimely death in 1984 (killed by the much vaunted Soviet sanitary system… he was being treated for a broken leg in an “elite” hospital) the Buran spacecraft, immediately recognizable as a clone of the US STS, was put on a crash course. The first unmanned flight took place in 1988. Both this test and careful analysis of the US experience (the Challenger blew up two years before) combined with the precarious Soviet financial situation finally did it. The Minister of Defense, Dmitri Yazov, who everybody thought of as a “political appointee” but had the ear of Gorbachev, spoke against it and the program was “mothballed”. So the Commies diplayed much more common sense than the “Free World” on the matter.
Good grief…
I think you accidentally typed mises.org instead of prisonplanet.com or some other paleo-dork website.
I think you are naive.
You know freedom has to be fought for and defended everyday.
But incredibly you believe truth will be given to you for free?
That’s not helpful at all.
Look up “mythbusters moon landing” on YouTube. Watch all nine parts.
I never worry about what other people think of anarchism or libertarianism. They don’t seem too concerned I think statism is immoral and irrational.
As long as you allow other people to define you and your ideas, you will never be in control of your image.
“If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid.” (Epictetus)
“Another way to phrase this is through a more recent quote from Elbert Hubbard,” Ferriss says. “‘To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.” Ferriss, who holds a Guinness World Record for the most consecutive tango spins, says he has learned to enjoy criticism over the years. Ferriss, using Roman philosophy to expand on his point, says: “Cato, who Seneca believed to be the perfect stoic, practiced this by wearing darker robes than was customary and by wearing no tunic. He expected to be ridiculed and he was, he did this to train himself to only be ashamed of those things that are truly worth being ashamed of. To do anything remotely interesting you need to train yourself to be effective at dealing with, responding to, even enjoying criticism… In fact, I would take the quote a step further and encourage people to actively pursue being thought foolish and stupid.”
I partly agree with you, liberty student, but I am really just fed up with conspiracy threads. I mean, it’s not a skeptical website, where people evaluate and debunk “alternative theories” and search for strong arguments against it, even though, state can be seen as a conspiracy too.
But when some conspiracy theorist come here believing he will get support from libertarians, because he sees, that other people also shun them because of their non-mainstream theories (austrian econ, natural rights etc), I can not help but mock them and inform him, that not everyone here disbelieve in general scientific theories just because government funds them.
Well, I guess I gotta still learn to ignore it and be more.. how to say this in english.. hard-boned or hard-skinned, can’t find the right word..
If both USSR and USA space programs were hoaxes, why stop the hoax? Why didn’t the Russians claim to have gone to the moon? Why admit that any people died in the accidents? Was only some of it a hoax? Certainly some of it was not not faked, or there would be no failures.
MaikU, the phrase you are looking for is to be less thin-skinned. Or to have a thicker skin.
I generally don’t take seriously beliefs based on paranoia and pseudo-investigative Internet journalism. There’s no need to resort to these ridiculous ideas to invalidate statism; its badness is already illustrative.
We’re supposed to be the rational ones, right?
It is funny, in a way, that there is something to be said for the lie that ‘only government backed scientists know what in the hell they are talking about’. Never mind that many of them (especially in the fields of Astronomy/Cosmology) keep having to alter the observations to fit their conclusions. Anyone who can seriously sit there and claim there is any rational basis for Non-baryonic (dark) matter is a fool, lying or both. Might as well say ‘Its God’ for all the empirical evidence for such a claim. Its sad, in a sick way, to track back to just where it was science in America turned down the wrong path. The late Dr. Michael Crichton (yep, that one) made the observation numerous times in his books in later years that the peer-review process is inherently corrupted and that government grants and the manner in which results are desired do nothing to actually further science.
Buran was destroyed back in 2002, When the hanger it was being stored at collapsed. For what the Shuttle program cost, the Taxpayer really got screwed. I’ve always thought private enterprise is the way to do space. They would be more competitive and the technology would expand rapidly. instead of the government system of outdated and overpriced. If the government was in charge of designing planes, we still be waiting for a biplane.
Jay, What you are supposed to be is a shill, but your techniques to derail conversations, used ad-hominems and fear to scare people into complying and not-researching things for themselves won’t work here. Anyone here can for example google Gagarin Lie or any other, I won’t even tell what to search because what matters is the process, the mindset to cut through lies and say “I want proof”. You are betraying this site based on the motto “Do not give in to evil, but proceed every more boldly against it”, you are asking everybody to resign, to give up, to fear, to not lead their lives but instead be lead, controlled and directed. Now going back to the thread, the only ‘good’ thing about politics is when they fight each other, when the soviets took over, they published secret treaties from the Tsarist Era, when the URSS broke, lots of secrets went public in the new republics.
No one asked you to. The premise of the thread is that the space program has been a cover for big government socialism.
Asserting something is ridiculous isn’t an argument.
Rational means something different to Austrians than how you are using it. In AE, everyone is a rational actor.