After a year of private study, I’m really feeling drawn to a career in economics. I realize I’m the only one who can really answer this question for myself, but I’m looking for input from others who have maybe faced my dilemma. If I wanted to work as a corporate economist, research, policy advisor, etc., etc., should I just suck it up and learn all the Keynesian stuff? (I’d remain a closet Austrian, of course haha.)
I’m not in a position to change universities anyway, but it looks like only a few schools in the nation even teach free-market thought these days, and none of them lean Austrian. Assuming I go to grad school, there are some potential opportunities to get away from strictly Keynesian-style economics (to be fair, my school also offers Marxian econ courses hahaha), but that is all skipping ahead quite a bit. For now though, if I indeed wish to earn an econ degree, it appears I gotta suck it up.
I know none of you can answer this for me, but basically I’m at a crossroads. I’m 2 years from completing a degree in health sciences, and honestly I’d need to do a masters following that to compete for any of the desirable jobs. (Seems to be the case for every major nowadays, but that’s neither here nor there…) My problem is that my interest has really fizzled out over the past couple of years. I find myself reading more and more economics because I find it more interesting and fun. (Then again, I’ve been reading Austrians and Chicago School authors, maybe I’d wanna shoot myself if I read Krugman at the like?) I don’t know what to do!
Gah… maybe I should just double major? More debt of course, but more options…
I don’t know how it is where you are, but at my uni the econ course is very maths intensive, and I have it on good authority that it is the same pretty much everywhere else in the UK. Heavy on maths means neoclassical in Micro and Keynesian/mainstream in Macro. Oh and then there’s the econometrics. Also the first year we did courses on Stats and Maths.
You should consider a degree in Economic History, that can get you away from some of the maths and towards more essay type stuff. And if you’re lucky, you’ll cover some of the Austrian school. I can tell you this, in my first year at uni, I learned more from our 1 module on economic history than our other 4 on other topics. (the sixth being a sociology module)
My school is probably middle of the road on the math. Basically I’d need to take one more statistics course and a calculus course. While I understand and agree with the far-reduced presence of math in the Austrian school, math in general isn’t something I shy away from. I actually find statistics pretty interesting since they are usually manipulated or completely ignored to push some agenda. So it is interesting for me to try to cut through the BS and see what a set of data really shows, not what some biased interpreter claims it shows.
My school is a bit limited. They simply offer an economics major with a few choices of minors if one is interested in that. There aren’t majors in econometrics, economic history, etc. Just plain ol’ economics. On the plus side, students can choose from a wide variety of classes to obtain the requirements for the economics degree. Some of them look quite interesting, however none of them lean Austrian, and I’d be pretty surprised if any of them even leaned Chicago-style.
Awesome! It’s my experience that economic historians are usually more broad in their views because they encounter much of the classical and other pro free market literature in their readings. ymmv though
Yeah, I’ve decided to go down the route of a major in political science and a minor in philosophy. I’m hoping that this takes me to a think tank. That for me would be the ultimate.
You should go for it. I know some of this forum would point to the debt, but if it’s something you really want to do, and if it’s really only do-able with a university economics degree, then I think you should just bite the bullet.
It might otherwise be very difficult to even get your foot in the door.
I almost dropped out of school because I was so disappointed with what we were “learning.” But I discovered that trying to enjoy what you’re being taught will motivate you to study mainstream econ. Since neoclassical microeconomics and Keynesian, monetarist, and new classical macroeconomics are in vogue, you have to become fluent in these schools of thought in order to be able to critique them thoroughly, not just on an epistemological front like many Austrians do. Use that to motivate you and I think you’ll enjoy wading and arguing your way through college.
@Schnapps- That’s kinda what I figured about getting the ol’ foot in the door. If I finish my health degree and still have a strong interest in econ (which I predict I will), I’d have to get another undergrad degree in econ before moving forward anyway. The debt obviously sucks, but there are opportunities avaialble to help me minimize it. I’ve already sunk a couple years into health, and it is still interesting to me (just not on the level of economics), so I thinking finishing it would be beneficial. I’m leaning toward the double-major, but it’s already too late into the term to start adding econ courses, so I’ve got a couple months to left to think things over.
@kaju- That’s basically what I was thinking, and I’ve had to use this technique before. It is very beneficial to understand the more in-depth workings of ideas one disagrees with.
^ I’d agree here. If you don’t want to get an econ degree, get a degree in another field where you can get a job that’s worth the time/money spent studying in college. Finance, accounting, chemistry, mathematics, etc.
^Alas, this is another thing I’m sadly realizing! There are really no desirable jobs for those with an undergrad health degree either. Meanwhile, someone with an undergrad econ degree can at least get an entry-level job as an analyst, advisor, etc.
My feelings are that I enjoy econ just as much as health sciences (actually more these days), so what is the shame in going for a field that offers much, much better compensation?
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but this is just to get back to Filc and kaju.
I live in socialist Canada, which means the college I go to is heavily subsidized, which means that a semester costs less than 2k. Considering that I’m being taught directly by professors in small classes (not TA’s), I’ve found the direct debate/dialogues to be invaluable.
I have a class with the head of the econ department this semester. He’s a behavioral economist. There’s 10 people in the whole class and the class is run as an open discussion. Pretty awesome.
I met a bright physics major from Yale who refused to study economics from his school even though it was his passion. He claimed he would only major in economics if he could learn real economics. I remember listening to a Hoppe lecture in which he tried to persuade individuals from studying economics at mainstream institutions and instead making headway into subjects like law and sociology.
I’ve taken some chem (and lots of biology), but really none of it tickles me like I hoped it would. Definitely never given even the slightest thought to chemical egineering. A path like that would be 100% for the money, not something that I actually find personally interesting. Too bad, huh? Haha…
I’ve been talking to my parents, girlfriend, and a friend who just complete his undergrad in econ (who surprisingly still believes in free markets). Basically no one is too surprised and they are encouraging me to pursue econ. The truth is that there are no worthwhile job opportunities with my particular health science program, or at least none that are financially appealing to me haha. (We’re talking the same kinda money I could make with no degree at all.) I also don’t see myself pursuing a masters in health, as my interest has just been declining so much over the past year.
I’ve completed enough courses to have the health minor, so I’m thinking I will switch over to econ. Worst case scenario: If I graduate and somehow absolutely hate econ careers, I can still go take my certified strength and conditioning specialist’s certification, because they simply require any type of bachelors degree. (Oh, I’m a kinesiology major, by the way.) I’d have to study a little harder for it probably, but I honestly already have the knowledge base at this point. So, I’d be able to choose between an an entry-level analysis or advising job, or be broke athletic trainer haha. Maybe moonlight as a trainer on the weekends.
If you have a degree in economics then your options are limited - especially if you don’t have a PhD. Basically, if you have that PhD, then you can do 3 things with an economics degree: 1. you can teach; 2. you can get a job with the government; 3. you can get a fellowship position at some NGO. If you want to teach Austrian economics, then that basically disqualifies you from both 1 and 2. If you don’t have a PhD in economics, then you’ll be stuck waiting tables or working retail. You won’t go anywhere with out that PhD; no offense. You can try to get a job at some small university, but you won’t likely get it. If you want to be a closet Austrian and teach mainstream economics, then your options will grow. Would you like to do this though?
For me, learning economics - especially austrian economics - is something that is more enjoyable on the side. You’d be better off choosing a different major and just applying your non formal education with your formal education. Majoring in economics, as an Austrian, is a career killer. For every Austrian professor that has a stable job and is able to teach how they want to, there is probably several fold more aspiring professors that have a degree which is not conducive to their current career.
Don’t let me, or anyone else here, stop you - if that’s what you really want to do.
I would have to disagree with FunkedUp… I currently study economics and philosophy at the university of texas in dallas and Austrian economics is big in Texas. My professors here are neoclassicals but even they say that Austrian Economics is growing rapidly. At the University of Dallas, the econmoic professor chair is an Austrian Economist, Samuel Bostaph. I have talked to him over email and I asked him about Austrian Economic professors and the demand for them. Then I said that trying to find someone who teaches Austrian Economics is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. He replied saying this “It will get better. We were right about the Great Recession. Many finance professionals are aware of that, if academics are not–or refuse to abandon the sunk costs in their erroneous macro. Austrian programs will grow in the future.”
First of all having bachelors degree entitles you to teach nowhere. At least, not on the college level.
Secondly, in addition to a job with the government there are plenty of opportunities for a economics major that may be considered enjoyable and beneficial even if they aren’t necessarily paid evangelization of Austrianism. For example, according to this list econ majors are second only to engineering types and applied math types in earnings. Ohh and Physicists. Easily economics is the least math-y thing on that list even at math-intensive schools. The math required for econ is always less than engineering and physics. And according to this study economics majors beat many other more-mathy majors including engineers when you look at career highs. Yes, engineers. You know the guys who have 80 credit majors.
In light of all this, I think some econ majors working in hedge funds, etc, have long hours. But this is besides the point. Economics is not a bad degree. It’s no engineering or computer science but if your passionate about it, it’s well worth it financially.
Keep in mind that some one who cares about economics will do well in it and be at the top of the range of economics students as opposed to someone who tries to be more “practical” and becomes an engineer instead of an econ major and is in the middle of the engineering range.
Just wanted to dispel those myths. And if you do get into a PhD program you have one of the best and well paying job markets for Professors in the world. Not too bad. Not too bad at all.