Suicide and libertarianism

That’s what I’m saying. There isn’t just no guarantee that a contract will be kept, there are NO GUARANTEES. It’s not possible. Government cannot make them, nor can individuals. But individuals can voluntarily agree that if party A does this, party B will do this. If neither do said act, there is no violation of contract. If A holds up his end of the deal and B doesn’t, A can try to take B to some private court or at least use some mutually agreed upon arbiter to settle the dispute. Should B refuse, what is the result? A never does business with B again, and encourages others not to either. B will forever have more trouble getting people to do any sort of trade with him as a result. B will likely be less inclined to do something like this again, or will be poorer as a result of not being allowed to enjoy the fruits of division of labor again. You (a statist) kid yourself into thinking the government can guarantee higher employment, lower prices, better life, no violence, no theft, no accidental death. You are being played for a fool.

You do not understand contracts, particularly as they pertain to an anarcho-capitalist society. Stop acting like you do understand either of those concepts; or realize no one believes you do.

I agree with you fully there, and never said anything of the sort. Maybe less violence, but that’s just a hypothetical. The important point is that failure to enforce contracts leads to dishonesty and exploitation and is inconsistent with natural law as praticed by the first humans.

Dishonesty, exploitation, and inconsistency leads to less favor among the free market and therefore, among society, which leads people to guard themselves more strongly from you. Possibly the best, most fair form of justice that could be developed by humans, at least thus far. You rip people of in ancapistan, you will be poorer from your own karma. But you still don’t get it do you?

I get what you’re saying. I just believe that contracts are central to capitalism and should be enforced.

What about a separation fee- i.e., both parties pay some penalty for terminating the contract?

Still waiting for you, Ban-Evader, to elaborate on this: “Under a system of truely enforced contracts both parties would have to keep their word.”

Yes, free market legal agencies would enforce contracts and penalize those who didn’t keep their word. At the least, contracts would include penalties or conditions in the case that the contract was violated.

Well, I’m sure most people would disagree with suicide but not the right to suicide :slight_smile:

I don’t see how at-will employment arrangements couldn’t exist in a free market.

But what right have you to deny an agreement where both parties agree for a third party to enforce it? At the least, by what right can you deny severance pay or other penalties for breaking contracts?

I don’t see how this refutes or otherwise invalidates the notion of an at-will employment agreement in a free market. Can you explain?

That’s fine; I’m not disagreeing with it. Now how can you deny severence pay, third party enforcement and other penalties for breaking contracts?

… Did I ever say I deny those things?

I’ll take that as a yes.

If I agree to be euthanised as a condition for violating my employment contract, you have no right to deny me this contract.

A yes to what? Your original question didn’t seem to be looking for a yes/no answer.

Now I’d appreciate it if you actually answered my question. It wasn’t entirely rhetorical. I would like to know just where you think I denied any of those things, because I don’t believe I denied them anywhere.

You seem to be intending the case of euthanasia as a penalty for violating an employment contract to constitute a reductio ad absurdum. What makes it look absurd in your eyes?

I never saw you disagree with it. It doesn’t look absurd in my eyes. In fact, it’s an entirely legitimate contract to make. I believe people have the right to agree to a contract where they work for someone else their whole life and cannot leave the contract without being subject to penalties specified in the contract, including death.

Then why did you imply otherwise?

I’m now going to accuse you of outright lying here.

Who should enforce them??

You’re asking not for what I’m advocating, which is anarcho-capitalism in a society with libertarian values. No one has authority over any other. So only you can attempt to enforce your contract. This is where your misunderstanding is. You confuse what we have today (crony-capitalism) with what we wish to see in the future (a free society). You want others to be responsible for you and your well-being, we want everyone to take that liberty and responsibility for himself.

Lol, so this is your endgame? It’s a rather silly one because no one would agree to such a thing. You can’t slip murder and slavery in the back door this way. All you would have to do is break the contract at that point and walk away, the other party could sue for recourse, and there’s no court in existence that would demand specific performance on an unethical euthanasia clause, sorry.

Because I had to make sure that was your position.

Which part? I’m holding this position for the sake of argument.

Do you have the right to deny me that contract? I’m assuming you do not.

That’s a failure to uphold a contract. What about severance pay? If the penalty for breaking the contract was a severance payment, would the court demand performance? If so, what makes that case different?