Surprise, Surprise

Economics Political Theory
1

The Unlibertarian Party elects an Unlibertarian

The Unlibertarian Party: And Their Dear Leader

Oh yes, what a crystal clear message for the world that political action, not to mention political action through the United States’ “Libertarian” Party, is not only a waste of time, but a corrupted disease that spreads through the veins of the body of the liberty movement! Yes, what an obvious light to shine on the picture of the state of the arch-enemy of liberty – politics!

With the election of Bob Barr to the United States’ “Libertarian” Party, SEK3’s position on “get-liberty-quick schemes” and their damage to the liberty movement seems unmistakably strong. Indeed, what great irony for a US politician to charge the US Federal government with the task of, “securing our borders from criminals, terrorists and those seeking to take advantage of the American taxpayer”! Of course, as a side note, this plan would be perfectly fine, if it meant kicking the real criminals, terrorists, and exploiters of the entrepreneuriat out of the realm of life – forget the “country”! – i.e. the Congressman, politicians, and their millions of hoards of privileged business elites, corrupt labour officials, and military mass-murderers. Something seems to insinuate, however, that Bob Barr, the same man that once proclaimed a “constitutional right and responsibility… to pass laws protecting citizens from dangerous and addictive narcotics,” will largely disagree with that.

Dear LORD, do the gods of irony show no mercy? Perhaps not. After all what could be more ironic than a “Libertarian” Party nominating this blue-eyed, political gypsy who not only voted as a consistent protectionist in his term of office, but he’s also one of the most renowned drug-warriors in the history of the war on drugs.

Then again, perhaps this isn’t such a contrast. After all, the “Libertarian” Party isn’t actually for libertarians! So who cares if they elect this representative of the great Satan as their leader? Who cares if those that supported Ron Paul are also to support the same man that wished to ban the practice of Wicca in the US military? Don’t you Ron Paul “revolutionaries” feel good now? After all, who besides the unlibertarian “Libertarian” Party supports Barr the Drug-Warrior? Why, the now very wealthy Ron Paul!

I personally hope you “rEVOLutionaries” can sleep at night with the millions of victims of the drug war rotting in the state’s dungeons; your “movement” makes me sick and so do you if you still stand by it.

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Niccolo, I don’t like Barr, and I’m not an American, but I’m driven to point out that you are a fungus on the lung of liberty, a parasite and a kneecapper. Your inflammatory rhetoric is never aimed at the truly evil in this world, but rather at the very people who are moving away from statism and closer to your point of view.

If you were liquid gold, I wouldn’t welcome you on the end of my boot. If you were freedom from a lifetime of enslavement, I would run from you.

Your bilious bombastic rants serve no purpose, than to inflate your own terribly insecure ego at the expense of people actively spreading liberty, even if it is only a little at a time.

One day, when you grow up, and have a house to manage, mouths to feed, and a family to protect, you might better understand that your angry dissafected youth only exists in books and music videos, not in the town square or the farmers marketplace.

If I wasn’t busy actually doing things, I would start a blog just to make fun of you. Because not only are you totally ineffective, but you are a joke with your petty insults and temper tantrums.

Pity on you and your miserable soul.

How was that? I was channeling my inner Niccolo.

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You need to add more bile.

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A bit ad-hom for my tastes :p.

I disagree with Niccolo’s speech (“Dear LORD” is a bit melodramatic, I admit), on the basis that education via debate & discourse with said “R3olveutionaries” is possible & may help more, but his objection to Barr is sound.

The nomination of Barr simply confirms that the LP is no longer a party even for political libertarians, but for a party that has long since slid into a new hip conservatism, as the Republicans hardly resemble said conservatism any longer. It would not be unreasonable for a great deal of libertarians to be upset at such a prospect.

I’m sure plenty of individuals on the forum would probably be doing other things if some of them weren’t busy, myself included :slight_smile:

*** Edit: I took liberty student too seriously, move along, my post was a tad reactionary.

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Amigo, you are taking my post far too seriously.

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Sorry, the whole lack of apparent emotion in text thing occurs once again. I now realize how ironic my post is, come to think of it, lol.

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This is now an officially funny thread. On another note, Fred and thread sound the same.

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I use more irony and more cryptic metaphors.

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No one else caught the intentional irony for dramatic effect?

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I joined the LP a few months ago…I was drunk…but that’s not the point is it? I don’t like Barr…well…that’s a lie. I don’t know anything about him really. I’ll vote for him anyway since there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell he’ll even get 1% of the vote. I guess it is more of a protest vote than anything else. I support Ron Paul and wish he’d gotten the Republican nomination. He’s done a lot to get people thinking about liberty. I’ve got more than a few friends who were staunch Bushite neo-con Republicans and a few socialist Democrats who, after listening to and reading what Dr. Paul had to say, have begun talking about such things as civil liberties, sound money, non-intervention. Even the gun grabbing friends of mine have started asking questions about firearms and want to go to the range. Paul isn’t perfect but he’s gotten people to think about liberty. No matter how much you want it an anarchist revolution isn’t going to happen over night. It’s going to take people like Ron Paul to get people to start questioning everything the state is doing. Once they have that little seed of doubt in their minds (maybe we don’t need to police the world? maybe guns aren’t as bad as they make them out to be?) then we can step in with real solutions to the worlds mess.

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First, I will admit that Ron Paul has done some good for the libertarian movement - though I feel he has also just served as a distraction and a confuser for others, especially in issues regarding Anarchism and immigration. However, my problem is and has always been (aside from immigration) that not only does he often serve as a fundamental contradiction to radical libertarianism - in regards to following “the rule of law” - he largely wastes the willingness and resources available to the Radical Libertarian movement that would be better used with a different tool, like Agorism, for example.

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On topic: I think Barr’s nomination is a good thing. The exodus from the Libertarian party has begun, and that is a good thing for libertarianism. More people will become disillusioned with political “libertarianism” and adopt more market-based means of opposing the state.

The national Libertarian Party has been exposed for the farce that it is, and nobody should be surprised. People who expect a political party to act like anything other than a political party are fooling themselves. Especially one involved in national politics.

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I agree, but to an extent. Paul has certainly opened up the door and a lot more people are starting to think about liberty. The more I read Paul’s stuff, especially his new book, the more I’m convinced he’s an anarchist but choses to use the political machine and rhetoric to reach people. I agree with his stance on immigration so long as we have a welfare state. If it wasn’t for that (public schools, Medicare/Medicaid, food stamps, SCHIP’s, etc.) then I don’t think immigration would be that big of a deal. But when I’m paying for someone elses health care, schooling, etc, not because I want to but because I’m forced to, and they aren’t even paying into the system a little that pisses me off. Then they bitch and moan because they feel they deserve MORE then I just want to start shooting people.

IMO, the best chance we have is to get people to start thinking “Constitutionally” again (classical liberalism). Once we get that accomplished it’s a small step we have to take to completely remove the state. But right now the population is too far in the socialist or fascist corners.

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Your problem is, and remains that you do not understand that not everyone comes to Agorism the same way you did, some may not come in a straight line ideological shift from statism, and some may stop off and be minarchists, classic liberals for 20 years or longer.

And lastly, you have no appreciation for the fact that moving people away from statism, even if it is only a marginal shift, is progress. Less statists, is a good thing. More people tax protesting, is a good thing. More people distrusting government, is a good thing. More homeschoolers, good thing.

You have an irrational double standard you apply to European protestors and American vulgar libertarians. The Euros get a pass for protesting the state, even if they are protesting free markets and protesting for more statism. But if Americans start their libertarian journey as single issue libertarians, then you get all worked up that they are going to further institutionalize the state.

It’s not rational.

What’s overlooked, is that while yes, Paul has probably created 200,000 vulgar libertarians, minarchists, libertarian conservatives etc., he’s probably also snuck in another 1,000 anarchists to the mix.

But the problem is, you’re so obsessed with making your “Count Chocula on Steroids” blog posts, you haven’t established the infrastructure to welcome them, educate them, and bring them into a movement.

All of that energy wasted protesting Paul, when you could have been harvesting the low hanging fruit of his labour.

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No, they won’t adopt more market based means. You’re projecting. There is no reason to believe they won’t become disillusioned with libertarianism itself.

Or that the party will be hijacked and undermine libertarianism, undoing all of the progress to this point.

Anarchism doesn’t remove the potential upside of having structure and organization. This idea of a single ideology, a single path, a single technique is so anti-creative, so anti-reality, and so anti-free market in my opinion. The proof is in what a lousy job agorists seem to be doing at selling their belief system.

Read Sun Tzu. Having multiple fronts, even if they are ineffective or decoys, is a valuable approach. Thinking tactically is important, reinventing the wheel is not necessary.

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This is a fantastic post. Paul reached so many people, so many young people and has affected a lot of people’s lives. No it wasn’t the perfect message of anarchy, but that might not have sold to such a large group. Instead, he’s created an entirely new discourse about sound money, foreign policy, government overreach and abuse…

He’s given everyone a reason to hope and an outlet for their inspired creativity. I know Canadians who have driven to the US to get his book, because it’s still not available here.

I’m speaking for myself, but I may have gone my entire life without knowing who Lew Rockwell was. Or Lysander Spooner. Or Nock, Rothbard and Mises. I’ve been fundamentally changed by his introduction of these ideas to me. And now I really believe that education and collaboration are the next steps. I spend my day devouring information, reading like I’m in school again, cancelling my cable TV, planning to get to a Mises circle, building liberty oriented web sites, and trying to figure out ways to earn more money I can channel into activism.

When someone says that Paul is doing a bad job, and I feel like I am a product of what he accomplished during this Presidential run, then it’s like a personal attack on me, and the new found purpose I have.

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Exactly! I was closer and closer to becoming a full blown socialist when I just happened to catch a broadcast of the Alex Jones Show where he was interviewing Ron Paul (way before Ron Paul was cool). I did a search on Paul and it took me to Lew Rockwell’s website which changed my life. After reading everything that Paul wrote on Rockwell’s website and searching out more I started to notice everyone was talking about the Mises Institute. So I began poking around here, reading articles and downloading books. It was Dr. Paul who steered me away from my socialist path to libertarianism and Rockwell and LvMI made me believe in anarchy. But in the end it was Dr. Paul and his “constitutional” message of limited government, sound money, non-interventionist foreign policy, personal freedoms, etc. that changed my life.

Things need to be done in a step by step fasion. It’s like being in a dark room. If you just turn the lights on after being in the dark for a long time the light will be blinding and it might even drive you away forcing you back into the darkness. But if you slowly turn up the light you’re eyes are able to adjust. Eventually the darkness will be gone and you’ll see everything for what it really is. We can’t create an anarchist world by trying to shove it down peoples throats. We have to slowly bring them to it. We have to get them to start thinking about the things Dr. Paul is talking about, then move them to where they are acting like classical libererals/minarchist. Once we have done that it does take a whole lot to move you into the anarchist camp.

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I really think we should be thinking more about businesses, technologies etc that can facilitate the agora. Instead of just trying to build trade networks, also looking at new products, business models etc.

Basically continue learning, educating others and expressing ourselves in a decentralized, creative fashion.

My mind is constantly on fire now. Instead of existing, I’m living.

Nice to meet you kingmonkey. [H]

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I came to agorism through Ron Paul (per se, not really though, I made several ideological jumps). That doesn’t mean his actions were justified, and that I would have nessasairily remained my statist self had it not been for him.

The illigitimate child doesn’t worship the rape that gave them existance. I’ll steer clear of Paul.

On a side note, has anyone read his “manifesto”? I’ve never had a greater reason to scoff at his plans.