I’d rather have someone who has been subject to rigorous testing be certified to design a bridge than an individual who went to a 4 year school to take more classes in unrelated subjects than his/her declared major.
The person who goes to a 4 year school still has to have on-the-job guided experience as an apprentice for several years before they can write the exams to become a registered professional engineer. Just as a co-pilot needs to punch his hours before he can be a captain. Just as a medical doctor has to do several years of residency.
I’m a licenced registered professional engineer. I punched my time and did my license exams. Legally, you can’t even call yourself an engineer or write the term next to your name or sign any documentation that states you’re an engineer - without the license. The professional engineering body ownes the name “engineer” and it is illegal to call yourself an engineer without being licensed. Many jobs call themselves engineers: sanitary engineer, aircraft-maintenance engineer, auto-mechanic engineer, whatever… but legally to add a P.E. or P.Eng on your name you must be licensed and pay your annual licensing fee. Just like a medical doctor or lawyer. If you don’t you legally cannot practice the profession.
I don’t think I’m disagreeing with you actually. I believe fields like engineering, medicine, and the hard sciences do need 3-4 years of study. My original post was more concerned with the BA than anything.
BTW, who is in charge of licensure? The gubmint right? It would probably be more legitimate in the private sector.
I’m not sure about how it’s done in the US. I’m licensed in Canada. In Canada it is a self governed self regulated body by the licensed members themselves. A president, vp, treasury, are all democratically voted to power by all licensed members of the organization. We govern and enforce the guidelines we put in place for ourselves. Each province / state has their own organization. It is all done outside of government. There is an umbrela non-governmental organization called the Canadian Council of Professional Engineers (CCPE) that oversees all the different provices to ensure each maintain a particular high standand and consistency. The only thing these organizations have to do with government is that we must follow the law of the state. Contract law and tort law and all other laws set by the state / province.
Coming to the end of my four-year romp, I wonder if I’d do it over again. A history degree isn’t really worth much, in my opinion. So much debt, so much wasted time, with me dicking around figuring out what I wanted to do with myself. I still don’t know.
On the other hand, I did get to meet some cool people, interract with stimulating profs, and it was by dumb accident that I stumbled onto LRC through researching non-interventionism for a poly sci class. So it wasn’t all bad, by any stretch.
In the end, if you have no idea what you want to do, I think a four-year liberal arts degree is a waste.
academia (basically you go from student to graduate student, to part time teacher, to full time professor)
useful degree to work for someone else (medical, law, finance/business, engineering. combine any two to be REALLY valuable)
entrepreneur (hard work, intelligence, and a dash of luck)
there really isn’t a fourth option that is highly reliable. other routes can find success, but when you look at the numbers of people who try vs people who succeed the routes listed above are at the top.
-A piece of paper that says you’re an expert at something (whether it’s true or not is irrelevant to most human resource departments)
-A chance to party, display little or no responsibility, fuck alot of good-looking and relatively healthy people, and generally have fun putting off adulthood for another four years.
Sure, the price tag is high, but it beats working a job just to feed the bank.