Now, Marx says all ideologies are false and then promotes marxism. However, marxism is an ideology just like every other ideology. I think that the best way to understand politics is from your own views. Not some subscribed plethora of views attached to some string.
Let me explain my view. I at first really liked the socialism ideology and then recognized it was too utopianish. Then I kind of thought about letting the government regulate lots of things. I became a conservative. Then I became a liberal. When I was a liberal I was fiercly Democratic and I admired the Democratic party and its views. Then, when all these liberals got in power it’s lke they had forgotten why they were in there. I realized that I became a pawn of the Democratic party. So I gave up my party affiliation and became an independent. Then for a tme I became invested in libertarian thought but I recognized that THIS TOO is a utopian ideology. It has shaped my thinking on why privitzation is a good thing, but, it fails to explain many things. And a libertarian ideology would be terrible for mentally disabled people, or, poor people for that matter. Not that we should give people lots of welfare… but the libertarian ideology puts the fault completely on the individuals… while I disagree on what extent the individuals can be blamed. However, the only true way to see and understand political thinking is not through the colored lense of any ideology but with your own individual critical thinking. Who else shares my sentiment? It’s not rich or poor, Republican or Democrat… it’s YOU.
I think it’s utopianish, because, well depending on the kind of libertarian philosophy you stumble upon it puts too much faith in the individual. I am all for limited government… but the libertarian ideology is at some parts-- like with the unions-- really fails to miss the points and puts too much faith in businessmen and the individuals… now I’m all for free business and no regulations… and the like… but not for the reasons that libertarian ideologies says.
Their governments did that to them. But, if I understand correctly the libertarian ideology would not allow for any government faciliation of the poor. I think there should be SOME faciliation of them, but, there should be more emphasis on getting them back to work rather than welfare… and it should be as limited as possible. If that doesn’t work then the libertarian ideology might work. I also don’t know how the ideas of privately owned streets would work…
In the book I read the guy placed all the blame on the fault of the person for their situation. I think that’s just a bit harsh of a view.
Also, don’t you see what I’m saying? A true individualist mindset would be to see things from your own critical thinking analysis. Every ideology has its good and bad parts and EVERY ideology if it was just that ideology would be too utopianish.
Sounds to me like you are someone attracted to doctrine.
Such as? This is why we are here. To look for answers and share knowledge.
This statements means that you don’t understand libertarianism. Which means your previous pronouncement about it being utopian seems uninformed.
Libertarianism isn’t about guilt. You’re still thinking like a socialist.
Politics is about murder and theft. Move beyond politics if you want to look for answers. You won’t find justice, peace or progress by pointing a gun at people.
I don’t share any of your sentiments, except the last one. It is about you. And you could really improve your understanding of libertarianism, because you seem to have a lot of ideas about it which are not correct.
1 - Too much faith on the individual? Wow, that leaves the door open for mind-control. You’re generalizing way too much.
2 - You want people not to depend on welfare from a charity and so you want them back to work as soon as humanely as possible. Then you’re free to start up a charity that does this.
3 - It’s a harsh view. So as an individual think of another view.
4 - So your answer is individuals shouldn’t be able to “critical(ly) think” ?
So you don’t trust people by themselves, but you trust them in groups?
What part about unions? What are your reasons for being for free business and no regulations? How does this differ from the libertarian ideology?
This is false. Libertarianism promotes the poor becoming rich. It promotes justice, peace and private property rights. Free markets encourage trade, not hoarding. They encourage interaction, not seclusion. They encourage profit, not welfare.
The same way privately owned movie theaters work. Or privately owned shools. Or privately owned security companies. Or privately owned airlines. Or privately owned electric companies.
What book?
Sounds like you are using doublethink or bad examples as an excuse to dismiss drilling down to truth.
Well this is perfect; just a couple of days ago Walter Block’s new book came out, The Privatization of Roads and Highways (Free PDF or order it from the website):
Is there any room for unions in a libertarian society?
What kinds of protests would be allowed in a libertarian society?
In a minarchist state what kind of government functions would be allowed?
You see, I don’t really understand how the libertarian thought would deal with these kinds of problems. I don’t really want to get away with the government altogether because I like our country’s principle, I like what America stands for, and I don’t want us to go away… but I just wonder how libertarian thought would allow for it. That’s why I think it’s idealist… I just don’t know how we could do away with some things. I’m not a statist. I just love the idea of our country… I’m a believer in our constitution and yeah… I think I’ve said enough on this subject.
So you don’t think an employee and an employee should be able to negotiate a contract without the coercive intervention of government? What points is libertairanism missing? This is where I want you to expand.
Are you implying that the free market wouldn’t provide charity? Did you know that millions of people donate to the Goodwill, Toys for Tots, and other such organizations? Did you know that churches provided health services and other services to the poor that were financed through charity? Did you know that it was the Church that started Harvard College? Did you know that the best expressways and freeways and roads in China are those built and maintained and owned privately?
What book is this?
The free market doesn’t promise that no crime will occur, that no one go bankrupt, that no one will die. To think so would be utopian.
I guess I’ll read this post, but I think it only intellectually proper for you to address your first comments and our responses to them. For you to jump around like this shows lack of attention and so how can I discuss with somebody that is drifting off to sleep. Other’s can do what they please, obviously, but I’m not playing this game.
Thank you for clarifying some of my concerns with the libertarian ideology.
Look, I read a book called The Libertarian Manifesto and I was really turned off by the libertarian ideology…
I apologize if I seemed just like a disgruntal former libertarian from this thread… I’ll have to do more research on the thought before I make more comments about it in the future.
I’m curious as to where this middle of the road thinking came from. “the truth must be somewhere in the middle of two extremes”. It seems to be a rejection of systematic, logical thinking.
Yes. But not the kind we have today in the US where the government-backed unions have the power to coerce the businesses.
Depends on the agreement. You have to understand that not all lands will have the same rules. In other words, there won’t be one universal set of rules. The same way DisneyWorld has different rules than SeaWorld.
Doesn’t apply to libertarianism.
There could be a country (notice I say country, not state nor nation) that is modeled after the US.
Well, I’m not a modeate…but I’ll answer that to the best of my ability. It’s the idea that being on either extreme is a rejection of systematic, logical thinking, so being in the middle they say would be better than the other two extremes.
You mean voluntary association? It’s what the free market depends on!
Against what? Where? Do you want to use violence? Better yet, against whom?
I’m not a minarchist. Minarchy is still statism.
Again, that’s why we have a discussion forum.
Allow for what? What does America stand for?
But why are you worried about that? Do you know how your corn flakes are made and delivered to your bowl? Do you know the process your crap undergoes when you flush the toilet? Do you know how to manufacture aspirin?
Sounds to me like you’re trying to find any excuse to reject libertarianism.
Sure you are. You think government is good and necessary. You can’t have it both ways. You can plead the case for nationalism and government, then claim not to be a statist.
But do you love what your country actually is? Sounds to me like you’re the utopian.
Sorry if I come off hard, but you’re posting a bunch of contradictions and strawmen, then claiming libertarianism is things it is not. You sound like a really confused person. I’d like to help you find some answers, but you’ll have to be honest with yourself about the questions.
Which is the basis of doublethink. Do not believe anything as absolutely true. Moderation (believing nothing for sure) is the key to being knowledgeable. It’s completely counter intuitive.
A = A. If you think you’re being open minded by allowing that A =A, A = B, A = C etc, that’s double think.
See that’s it. You are still stuck in the false left / right wing paradigm like many others.
left wing = communism / marxism = international socialism
right wing = fascism / nazism = national socialism
Literally 5 letters of difference. You are NOT in the middle of those two. Well you shouldn’t be. It is a false dichotomy erected and propagated by the State and media talking heads to keep us all in their little box. Reject it.
The true paradigm is individualism vs collectivism.
So you’re either Forwards towards Freedom (Individualism) or backwards towards Tyranny. (Collectivism)
[:)]
And until Libertarians and everyone else realise this - we ain’t going anywhere.
First of all, I’m not in the left or right false paradigm… I’m all for freedom. Just can’t we have a workable representative Democratic Republic? Why can’t we just have a workable government?