The case for the State

[Nitroadict]

@Maxliberty

@Nitroadict

@Maxliberty

I am not frustrated my friend. I am here to agitate. I am here to stir the stale cauldron of the intellectual elitists of the freedom movement.

You’re taking the mises forum & it’s participants as representive of the freedom movement as a whole?

Yea, that’s the ticket.

I give more credit than you do to the mises forum then. There really aren’t that many places devoted to the discussion of freedom. I would say the mises forum is probably the best forum for reaching people that have some understanding of what freedom means. Is there others you would suggest? I would be very interested in knowing about other relevant forums.

I’m not sure if you give credit to the mises forum due to your disgust with the obviously over-bearing intellectual elitsts that are unfairly marginlizing you by not immediatley agreeing with your ideas & opinions. You either with us or against us, right? (.end sarcasm)

The Strike-The-Root forums, various member blogs (mises blogs and seperate site blogs), even Reddit has an Anarchism sub-reddit nowadays (Libertarian, I am not so sure). Of course, that’s assuming you approve of these suggestions as possible places to discuss freedom.

Offline is a different matter, however. Does anyone know if there are still old-fashioned mailing lists, meetups (not RP ones) , etc. going on offline? I’ve actually wondered myself if they were any older Libertarian and/or Anarchist mailing lists (early internet & before) still operating via snail mail.

[Brainpolice]

This is all quite ironic. Someone complains, through the medium of internet message boards, about others (some of whom openly advocate “direct action”) allegedly “intellectually masturbating” on message boards while “not taking action”.

[Jon_Irenicus]

Now that you mention it, I want a throne.

-Jon

[liberty_student]

Sure you do. Right under the sword, Damocles. [;)]

[Juan]

MaxLiberty thinks that, in order to prove that we’re not just a bunch of cowards and/or arm-chair anarchists, we should join his ‘libertarian’ camp (run by a cop/soldier - himself). It’s really amusing.

[Nitroadict]

@Juan

MaxLiberty thinks that, in order to prove that we’re not just a bunch of cowards and/or arm-chair anarchists, we should join his ‘libertarian’ camp (run by a cop/soldier - himself). It’s really amusing.

It’s quite perverse when it boils down to it. Aside from the not so subtle marketing, I wish MaxLiberty good luck in his efforts to Always Be Closing.

[Maxliberty]

@liberty student

@Maxliberty

I give more credit than you do to the mises forum then. There really aren’t that many places devoted to the discussion of freedom. I would say the mises forum is probably the best forum for reaching people that have some understanding of what freedom means. Is there others you would suggest? I would be very interested in knowing about other relevant forums.

You’ll get more enthusiasm and action on the Ron Paul forums. This is where the Philosopher Kings hang out.

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

[Brainpolice]

@Maxliberty

@liberty student

@Maxliberty

I give more credit than you do to the mises forum then. There really aren’t that many places devoted to the discussion of freedom. I would say the mises forum is probably the best forum for reaching people that have some understanding of what freedom means. Is there others you would suggest? I would be very interested in knowing about other relevant forums.

You’ll get more enthusiasm and action on the Ron Paul forums. This is where the Philosopher Kings hang out.

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

I’m still left absolutely clueless as to what you consider to be “taking action”, and you have yet to demonstrate that you yourself are “taking action”. So, what exactly is “taking action”?

As for intellectual dishonesty, the very premise of this thread is intellectual dishonest and you continually are misrepresentative of the actual positions of your “opponents”.

[Jon_Irenicus]

Yeah, sure, have fun on your little Quixotian crusade. Just make sure you don’t bump your head on one of those windmills…

-Jon

[liberty_student]

@Brainpolice

As for intellectual dishonesty, … you continually are misrepresentative of the actual positions of your “opponents”.

Et tu Brute?

[gplauche]

@Maxliberty

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

[Brainpolice]

@Geoffrey Allan Plauche

@Maxliberty

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

I found this to be ironic as well. Spending time on message boards telling people that they spend too much time on message boards.

[Nitroadict]

@Geoffrey Allan Plauche

@Maxliberty

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

But…But… MaxLiberty is fighting the elitist & abusive Philosopher Kings! I should be praising him for keeping my mind free from wandering too far away from freedom.

[Jon_Irenicus]

Copycat! [:O]

-Jon

[liberty_student]

@Geoffrey Allan Plauche

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

Too much time spent advertising or promoting must mean that production is not occurring.

Wow, that’s a good one Geoffrey! [8-)]

Logic much?

[Maxliberty]

@Geoffrey Allan Plauche

@Maxliberty

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

We can’t let you intellectual elitists and physical cowards have the megaphone all to yourselves. Words matter and messages matter. If people only here that the state is evil but there is nothing they can do about it then they will believe that. The Liberty Colony is real action, is it slow going yes, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.

[Jon_Irenicus]

No, look at it this way: ML is criticising people here because of perceived inaction on these fora. Yet where does he spend a lot of his time, and why should we assume he’s “doing” anything either?

-Jon

[Jon_Irenicus]

Again, do you have some sort of persecution complex? Where has anyone criticised you for taking action? I think you suffer from poor reading comprehension. If your LC works out, all the better! No one said otherwise. I really don’t know what your problem is… All you do is make baseless assumptions about others. Methinks you’re here to troll.

-Jon

[Brainpolice]

@Maxliberty

@Geoffrey Allan Plauche

@Maxliberty

Yes you are right that whatever else may be said about Ron Paul enthusiasts are not afraid to take action. However, the philosopher kings as you put it need to be challenged as their intellectual dishonesty misrepresents the goals of those who seek freedom.

Wait a minute…by spending so much time on this forum pretentiously berating us, you are doing exactly the same thing you in your ignorance accuse us of doing: talking too much and not taking action. For all we know, and all we can see, you’re all talk and no action. So the hypocrite is accusing us of intellectual dishonesty.

We can’t let you intellectual elitists and physical cowards have the megaphone all to yourselves. Words matter and messages matter. If people only here that the state is evil but there is nothing they can do about it then they will believe that. The Liberty Colony is real action, is it slow going yes, but Rome wasn’t built in a day.

For the millionth time, you’ve erected a sweeping strawman. I’m not aware of anyone here who has ever claimed that the state is evil but there is nothing they can do about it. This is your own misunderstanding and misrepresentation, and we have no obligation to apologize for or packpeddle on claims that were never made in the first place but were falsely attributed to us by your own imagination.

[liberty_student]

Because even if it is wrong, misguided or doomed to fail, I think he’s provided sufficient evidence for the Philosopher Kings to ascertain that he is indeed attempting action.

His argument seems to be that his harshest critics are the people who are either doing things so secretively that they don’t allow the same criticism they dole out, or that they are doing nothing but refuse to respond to a direct query about that.

I honestly came here thinking I would run into tomorrow’s Lew Rockwells and maybe even a future Ron Paul or two. Instead, it’s mostly anarchists, not minarchists, left-libertarians not Misesians who are much more prone to campfire every topic, than to stand up and yell charge.

The recent tail-tucking “we can’t use capitalism” and as you so wisely pointed out, even liberalism has been surrendered.

There is plenty of criticism of Ron Paul, from the very people whose primary tactic towards liberty is either (1) waiting out the state, or (2) blogging about how unfair the state is.

Don’t get me wrong. Maybe this is natural and right. Maybe as an evolutionary process the Mises Institute is more about philosophy than following in the Austrian tradition of engaging the statists. Perhaps people like Ego (now departed), myself and ML are hunting deer with fishing rods.

Lots of knowledge to be had here. But knowledge without action is…