The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies

I didnt pay much attention to egypt, but youre way off base on libya. Gaddafi was removed from power according to the formula. “They” fomented a disruption using nominally libyan cutouts and funneled terrorists into the breach. Subsequently, at every critical juncture of the war, precision air-strikes and covert ops attacked govt centers of gravity, allowing the terrorists to do the risky, dirty work. This was all a direct result of gaddafi’s plan to create the gold african dinar.

did you hear how he died? He was making a run for safe quarters when drone strikes decimated the convoy. Gaddafi escaped his vehicle and his location (after he left the vehicle) was sent to a squad of nato special ops guys. They found him in a ditch, shot him in both legs, and linked up with the nearest rebel unit and told them where to find gaddafi. One-hundred percent deniable, dirty as shit.

Well, a few things.

The State of Israel considers the Middle East in general their backyard. It’s their turf. Egypt, in particular, has been a special target of the State of Israel (think 1948, 1967, 1973, et. al.) and has doubtless been infested with Mossad agents for decades. Hence, if the Egypt “revolution” was an intelligence operation, Mossad would doubtless have been playing the lead role. We know that intelligence operatives were, in fact, on the ground in Egypt and the other Arab Spring countries. For example, we know that Otpor! was involved in all the Arab spring revolutions (the clenched-fist is their trademark). This organization got its start in the Kosovo wars and was a catalyst in the downfall of Milosevic. Modeled on old-fashioned communist revolutionary techniques, Otpor! today has many links to CIA but its origins are unknown. Eastern Europe, again, is an area where Mossad is highly active, so perhaps Otpor! originated in Tel Aviv.

While Mubarak had CIA ties and Egypt got big bucks from the US in the form of “foreign aid” (second only to Israel), it is ridiculous to suggest that Mubarak and Egypt were merely US puppets or that the primary interest of USG in Egypt is “democracy”.

As for Libya, the involvement of Europe/US through NATO aerial interference is blatantly obvious. Hell, French intelligence is said to have been the ones that killed Gaddafi. The film had all the marks of a “mafia hit” meant to make a public example and teach a lesson to unspecified others. Don’t threaten to rat on Sarkozy.

Clayton -

I’m sure that if the Egyptian ‘democratizing’ was an intellegence game then Israel would be all up in it. I just don’t see that as the case. Not in Egypt.

Also consider this, we in the US were told that Egypt was some kind of social media revolution, that twitter helped bring so many to the streets…I happen to think that it had to do with wheat prices going up 70% in a few months. 80% of Egypt is illiterate, twitter isn’t doing anything for them.

I suspect that Egypt was an aggravated revolution. Egypt has key US military installations that Libya, Syria, et al didn’t. We saved Mubarak and have tried to use our influence (in whatever forms) to hold control over their military (just as we do everything we can to control the civilian government of Pakistan); shit, we hold whatever we can. I think “rolling the dice” is a last resort.

And I don’t think “killing” bin Laden was a last resort despite the Raymond Davis incident that led to Abbotabod.

I never claimed that. I mentioned that a propaganda front of the state dept. that happens to have that word in the title was in operation there. I think that it is an intelligence game, but I don’t think it is to “install a leader” because that is short term. I think they (the West) are trying to take over the political parties in any “democracy” that springs up (or that they manage to aaggravaate into existence). One leader is 70 billion and a plethora of TOP SECRET inforamtion, manipulation of a semi democratic autarchy might seem less stable, but may result in a better grip of the system, especially since after “democratizing” there is always the possibility of open public support of the system..

Yes, when I think about that whole deal I’ve got to think that taking The G-man out of Libya was a last resort. It was a roll of the dice because we didn’t have anything to put in his place. We hired out and helped two different factions in Libya in a desperate bid to get him. I also think that the wikileaks drop with all of the dirt on the G-man and Berlusconi, etc. must have pissed him off. It may have undermined some of his legitimacy and then he called out Sarkozy specifically so Sarkozy paid a little more to have him assassinated.

As for not putting anything in place in Libya…I won’t mention who, but they have a reasonable case for the Romney allies within the defense and intelligence apparatus that helped that video as well as the “lack of adequate security” problem that has led to such an embarrassing incident for Obama. The Western power elite have put their weight behind Romney. They even have Obama on the debate leash. Romney is like a rhetorical bulldog and Obama is a bitch in heat ready to get it rough…

OK? The point is that every single country toppled in the Arab Spring was, domestically, in equilibrium in some sense. But part of that equilibrium was the external meddling. Somebody went around the Middle East and “kicked out the supports out” and we watched the whole region come toppling down.

Bin Laden was dead by December 2001. “Bin Laden” was killed in Abbottabad - probably one of the CIA body doubles in those shitty “bin Laden” videos released where he changes his mind and takes responsibility for 9/11 after initially denying any involvement. It was time to retire the increasingly absurd Emmanuel Goldstein avatar.

We officially began a long march to “The New American Century” on 9/11/2001. The project had been in the works for decades prior. The invasion of much the Middle East (and destabilization of the rest, except the crown jewels orbiting Saudi Arabia) was planned from the get-go. Watch this.

Of course, I think the neocons themselves are slated to get screwed over in Iran. They’ve been told that their job is to set up a global empire by conquering the Asian continent. How silly. Of course the neocons aren’t going to conquer the Asian continent and set up a global empire. The Elites would never trust them with that kind of work.

Clayton -

How are you about to link to stuff like that while you call the stuff I point out propaganda? The Washington Institute? Having said that, it was decent.

Aggravated as internal to controlled and external.

Yeah, I think the whole region is still sitting underneath the power structure from the 80s. The one that changed drastically for the rest of the world in the interim.

You missed the point of my statement. Are you familiar with the Raymond Davis incident?

We “killed” “Goldstein” in order to give us popular support in the even that Pakistan declare war on us after the Pakistanis captured a CIA operative with dirty reciepts, weapons, and cameras (this not reported by the western media for two months). It was not last resort, but it was a large permenant psychologically strategic asset that we let go. Maybe Obama is acting on his own and screwing things up for certain handlers?

Yes, yes.

I don’t think the U.S. & NATO will go over as easily as you do…but yes, “rolling the dice” on these countries (in that we don’t know if what replaces them is Pro-US or not) is just as dangerous for us (the West) as it is for them (everyone else).

Hilarious thread, I love the idea of “Government Trolling Agent”.

However there’s a thing I don’t understand. While the Internet has obviously changed our civilization in many ways, it still fails as mean to organize politics, especially an effective resistance to encroachment on civil rights and individual liberties. While our enlightened overlords would like us to believe the Egyptians used Facebook or Twitter to organize their stillborn revolution, I find hard to believe an oppressive regime as Mubarak’s didn’t monitor social networks for any sign of dissent, especially considering they were fully backed by the US government which has most Internet companies on a leash.

So why waste time trolling forums frequented by people who have exactly zero chance to influence politics, specially when the Internet is already awash in trolls who will do all the dirty work, and for free?

I am ready to concede social forums chiefly used by young Muslim men are targeted by government operations but that has more to do with the insane clima of paranoia we live in right now than with a real will to “infiltrate” the Internet.

Seconded.

If you go browse around on InfoWars, I recall Alex Jones has a bunch of official Pentagon documents that have basically identified the Internet as the “battleground of the 21st century” and they don’t mean Denial-of-Service attacks… they mean the information available on the Internet. Whatever trolling the Pentagon (or Langley or whoever, doesn’t really matter) does on social media is doubtless work that is done by the lowest-level infowar grunts, but it is definitely work they are interested in. In particular, the Pentagon will want to slow the spread of true information and one way to do this is “jamming”. In war zones, old-school jamming is accomplished by transmitting extremely high-power, broadband noise across all radio channels. Radio reception becomes impossible across wide areas as all you can hear is static on every channel. The role of information-warfare agents (yes, this is a real MOS designation) who engage social media is identical: just generate lots of noise. Doesn’t really matter what you talk about, so long as it isn’t important to the Pentagon for people not to be talking about it and as long as it attracts the attention of lots of people in the particular social medium, thus “squelching” all other discussion.

Clayton -

Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist

  1. Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

  2. Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentator become argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

  3. Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

  4. Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

  5. Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for ‘conspiracy theorists’ and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

  6. Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of ‘artificial’ emotionalism and an unusually thick skin – an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial.

Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the ‘image’ and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It’s just a job, and they often seem unable to ‘act their role in character’ as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later – an emotional yo-yo.

With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game – where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

  1. Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat ‘freudian’, so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I’m not aware of too many Navy pilots who don’t have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

  1. Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:

a) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.

b) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to ‘get permission’ or instruction from a formal chain of command.

c) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

Case and point why we shouldn’t call them “chemtrails”…

Al Gore–What’s your point?

Do you honestly think the gov is targeting the Mises forums? We, who adhere to the NAP and are not interested in violent overthrow or revolution?

I suppose we’re supposed to trust you because you ‘invented the internet’? :stuck_out_tongue:

LMAO!

I’m just posting some stuff that may be of interest.

Clayton, what you say is something I have heard from respectable (meaning no “I was abducted by aliens from Zeta Reticuli who gave me an anal probe and a message for mankind”) UFOlogists in the past decades. They squarely pointed the finger towards both “whistleblowers” and “well informed types” like John Lear (who candidly admitted having worked as a pilot for the CIA in Laos): their scope was to generate “static”. For what scope I cannot tell since they probably didn’t know either.

The big difference is back then you had to put your name on a book or your face in front of a crowd. If you said you were a former USAF captain from Dayton, Ohio, people would go to incredible lengths to see if you were telling the truth about your wereabouts. Now you can work in complete anonimate or even use a false identity (meaning IP address). That’s both the blessing and the curse of the Internet.

I also suspect what I saw back in the days was a shape of things to come. Manipulation of the flow of information, “plants”, psy-war exercises, terror tactics, “exercises of general synthesis”… they all hinted something sinister was going on but it was all on a small scale. After all we were a small community back in the days. Right now the Internet has well over a billion users.