Bit curious, has anyone ever elaborated on the possible future of the Holy See/Vatican in a post-state world? I’m not an expert on the financial institutions of the modern Catholic Church, but it seems as if it isn’t financed by taxation or otherwise reliant on the existence of the state to maintain its financial income. Even if it did have to cut back down in expenses, it seems that it would receive sufficient donations by Catholics around the world to maintain its operation. If anything, I could actually see the church beginning to offer its services as a de facto private court and growing in strength.
Most people don’t usually look at case by case examples of what would happen in a world without monopolies of force on geographic regions backed by force. The Red Cross would also continue to exist and live on donations. The idea though, of churches serving as de facto private courts and growing in strength is actually a new idea for me, and seems like a high probability event should the prior event occur. Hopefully though, the church does not attempt to become a monopoly of force backed by forced from doing so.
I’ve thought of this before. There is no doubt that a powerful and influential institution like the Roman Catholic Church would still be around. Possibilities I have considered are that the Holy See could act as a neutral party in discussions between waring groups (because let’s face it - as long as there are humans, there will be wars/fighting of some kind), or growing its charitable services as an efficient replacement for state welfare services.
Some cuts would have to be made; the Church still collects (essentially voluntary) tithes in some European countries. While it is possible the tithes might still be collected in a similar fashion, but obviously it would no longer be intertwined with the state’s tax system as it is now.
As of now, the Holly See is the only decent country around, i.e. not dependent on any stolen funds at all. I too believe that, under anarchy, it would grow as an arbitrage organization and major land holder, at the very least in places such as Spain, Italy, Latin America, France, Belgium and others. It could well become the riches organization on this earth (if it isn’t so already).
revenues: $355.5 million
expenditures: $356.8 million (2007)
That seems to be the last figure availiable and I think they actually ran a larger deficit but it was mitigated by increasing values of real estate owned by the church…
Seems they are already in trouble ehh…
I think much of the finances if the Holy See aren’t made public but there wealth have been estimated at about 7 billion dollars.
Which is interesting considering they not long ago released a new list of mortal sins which included “Accumulating excessive wealth”.
So maybe they are just trying to get rid of it and that is why they are in the red?
They seems to be funded by donations, rents in the Vatican City and other returns on investments they have.
My avatar is just the biggest pine cone statue in the world, located in Vatican City: an artistic representation of the human pineal gland, the place from which everyone gets ideas…that’s all the us “mortals” are allowed to know.
Whoa, you just got my attention, big time!!! Thanks for the insight, I didn’t know that! If you really want your mind blown, read DMT: The Spirit Molecule, by Rick Strassman.
After that, brew up some Ayahuasca, and take the “trip” yourself!
Well, then I guess you already know the pope’s big secret!
I really do anticipate with baited breath the formulation of a “science of mysticsm”, and I think Strassman’s book is an important example of how it will be done.
Science as it stands now is so eager to discount the empirical experience of countless people over millenia, and the truly ridiculous aspect of it is that they discount based upon their own empirical experiences (or lack thereof)!
Of course, the folks in charge really aren’t too keen on the idea of slugs like us realizing the illusory nature of their ordained control (they almost lost the whole ship in the '60s). So until they’re gone, or out of ideas, we’re stuck looking like wackos. Fortunately, they seem to be wearing thin on justification to ban these substances (and consequently, their research). I hope time is on our side.
I think many such large institutions would exist and try to act as private courts.
How should we classify the Vatican/Holy see?
it’s called an absolute elective monarchy but I’m not sure. Is it really a monopoly?
it doesn’t appear it uses taxation ,but is this correct?
apparently the vatican when allowed lets Italy punish it’s criminals at vatican expense.
It has supposedly the best postal service in the world.The pope’s private army are the swiss guard mercanaries who are recruited from switzerland(By taxation?.)
According to wikipedia the Vatican had a deficit in 2008 of over 15 million euros.
Its just a small land-holder which enforces its rules on whoever agrees to enter. No monopoply at all.
The “elective monarchy” stuff is just the decision-making process employed. Not different than any corporation nowadays.
Taxes who? Priests? It only builds on people’s stupidity. No coercion at all (although as already mentioned here, coercion was used in the past
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I too would contract someone to punish those who break the rules on my property, the just chooses to contract for that.
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It’s a paid occupation like every other occupation. As a side-note I must add that strictly forbids its citizens form serving in any foreign army, still makes a clear exception for the ’s Swiss Guard. So, even thinks of the more like a private entity than as a state.
As I said before, the probably concentrates more wealth than anyplace on earth, with the possible exception of ’s City. I don’t buy the “deficit” thing.
All told, I’m starting to think that perhaps Mises was right: allowing secession to proceed to its natural limits (’s number?) would indeed yield anarchy much faster than any anarchist ideological movement could (if indeed ideology could do it at all). The Holy See, by merely being as small as it is, counts as a private entity rather than as a State.
