I think I’ll just post the relevant parts of the interview to save you all a click:
"AEN: First let’s talk about the paper you presented at the Austrian Scholars Conference. Tell us about Katsuichi Yamamoto, who seems somewhat like Mises’s Japanese counterpart.
OKON: I was so pleased to see Yamamoto’s name listed in the Mises Institute’s time line in the**Austrian Family Album. My dream is that Austrians all over the world would come to know his name and his contributions to economics. He was born in 1896, so he was younger than Mises and older than Hayek. He died in 1987 at the age of 91. He published 30 books and more than 100 papers, essays, and notes. Soon I’ll have the opportunity to visit his archive in the National Library of Japan in Tokyo. It’s very far from Wakayama, so it’s a rare opportunity for me.
AEN: Are you now writing his biography?
OKON: Yes, but it is a long-term project. In the course of my research, I hope to arrange for the publication of Yamamoto’s most important work. This will be a key to promoting Austrian economics in Japan. My first article on Yamamoto appears in the inaugural issue of the economics journal of Wakayama University.
AEN: Let’s begin with Yamamoto’s intellectual influences.
OKON: He grew up at the turn of the century in severe poverty. In 1910, when he was 14 years old, he witnessed a series of dramatic political events. The Japanese government accused some socialist and anarchist writers, most famously Syuusui Kotoku, of plotting the death of the Emperor Meiji. Twelve people were put to death. Two of them were from Yamamoto’s village. This was the first time he heard names such as Peter Kropotokin and Karl Marx.
When he began his serious study of economics in 1920, he was first attracted to the ideas of Hajime Kawakami, a professor at Kyoto Imperial University and author of Binbo Monogatari*, or* A Study of Poverty, first published in installments in the newspapers from September to December of 1916*.*This series established Kawakami as one of Japan’s leading Marxian thinkers.
Yamamoto went to Kyoto solely for the purpose of studying with Kawakami. So when he finished his studies, and began teaching at the Wakayama College of Commerce, he was a Marxist. He went about enlightening the bourgeoisie and the working class about the oppressiveness of capitalism. However, as he later recalled, he had felt some contradiction in Marx’s theory from the beginning.
AEN: How did he make the transition?
OKON: Through the writings of Physiocrat journalist Guillaume Francois Le Trosne and economist A.R.J. Turgot, whom Murray Rothbard regards as a direct forerunner to the modern Austrian School. Yamamoto discovered these writers during studies he undertook in France from 1925 to 1927. Yamamoto was fluent in French.
When he came back to Wakayama, he began teaching the subjective theory of value to his classes. The next year he published two very important papers: “Turgot’s Theory of Value” (Naigai Kenkyu1:2*)* *and “Theories of Value in Physiocracy” (*Keizai Ronso 26:3). These were his first repudiations of Marxian economics. Then he topped them off with a direct hit on Kawakami’s theories in the very next issue of Naigai Kenkyu.
Then in 1930, his fullest treatment appeared: On Marxism: A Critical Study (Kyoto: Shiso-Kenkyuukai)**. This book sold tens of thousands of copies. He wrote it before he had read Mises and Hayek–that would come later–but the book is still right on the mark. He exposed the theoretical weaknesses and inconsistencies in Marxian historical materialism and surplus value theory. He said communism couldn’t work because no one is clever enough to manage it under collective ownership–an argument similar to Hayek’s.
AEN: When did he finally make contact with the modern Austrian School?
OKON: Actually, he follows Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk’s argument fairly closely in this 1930 book. He used it to attack the Marxian idea of exploitation. But his knowledge of Mises must have come about in 1931, when he went to Germany and the Soviet Union to observe the realities of the planned economy. He was curious how the problem of calculating profit and loss would be handled by these socialist systems. The result was his second book, Economic Calculation: The Fundamental Problem of Planned Economies (1932). In it he examines the views of Neurath, Tschajanoff, Varga, Strumilin, Leichter, Kautsky, Heimann, Halm, and, at last, Mises.
AEN: What about Hayek?
OKON: It’s a curious fact that he doesn’t mention Hayek or raise knowledge-problem types of arguments at all. Most likely it was too early in the debate. Instead, his style of argument is entirely Misesian. After presenting all of Mises’s views, he writes: “I have nothing to add to Mises’s argument. I must confess he is totally right.”
AEN: That would make this a very early account of the socialist calculation debate in the history of thought.
OKON: Since Hayek’s edited volume didn’t appear until 1935, and Trygve Hoff’s book didn’t appear until 1938, I think we can say that Yamamoto’s book was the first in the world to systematically analyze the socialist calculation debate.
Yamamoto then went to teach the mostly Marxist students at the Kokumin Seishin Bunka Kenkyusyo (The Institute for Japanese Spirit and Culture), where he tried to disabuse them of their fallacies from 1932 until the war. This was a period when Marxism was very popular among academics. Marx’s**Das Kapital became a best-seller, and the leading Marxians were people like Yoshitaro Omori, Itsuro Sakisaka, and Moritaro Yamamada.
AEN: Yamamoto could speak German as well?
OKON: Yes. When he went to Russia, there were no Japanese interpreters available. So he took a Russian-speaking German translator with him. So from Russian to German to Japanese, Japanese audiences got a glimpse of life under Soviet socialism. Also, he spoke English, and during these years testified before the U.S. Congress.
AEN: Just so we are clear, thanks to Yamamoto’s 1932 book, Japanese economists knew about the socialist calculation debate before English-speaking economists?
OKON: Three years before. Yes.
AEN: What do you find unique about Yamamoto’s approach to the subject?
OKON: Well, he was the only one of the Austrians who actually traveled to the Soviet Union in the thirties to observe what was taking place, and to evaluate it in terms of Austrian theory. He wrote three key articles: “The Russian Farmer Under Communism” (1934), “A Trial of the Planned Economy in Russia” (1936), and “Prices in a Socialist State” (1938).
AEN: What about on the theoretical front?
OKON: He presented Mises’s and others’ views very clearly. And he also made what I think is an impressive and perhaps original criticism of socialist Eduard Heimann’s argument on the calculation problem. Heimann had argued that it was possible to abolish private property in the means of production and still retain the ability to calculate factor prices, so long as markets for consumer goods are retained. The values could simply be imputed backwards from consumers to producers, since values are connected as if by an “elastic string.”
But Yamamoto pointed out that in order to have true economic calculation, profits and losses must be calculated by comparing prices and costs. But these prices and costs must be formed independently of each other in their respective markets or otherwise they will not reflect real conditions.
The mutual independence of all product markets and all production markets implies that appraisement is necessary in all markets. Otherwise, economic calculation will not be rational. Abolishing property and markets in factor goods is the equivalent of cutting the “elastic string” and introducing chaos.
AEN: Did Yamamoto extend his analysis to the mixed economy?
OKON: Actually, this was one of his main accomplishments during this period. He was a relentless critic of *keizai tosei (*economic control) as practiced by the Japanese government and army in the 1930s. First came the cartelization of industries deemed important by the government. Then came the controls on capital flight. Then came the nationalization of utilities.
Finally, by 1938, the “National Mobilization Law” was imposed. It gave the government complete power to control all people and all resources. Japan finally had the wartime economy or tousei-keizai. Even today, we see the effects of this tragic step, in the form of a huge and hugely powerful national police force.
All during this time, the government kept claiming that property was still in the hands of private owners. The government’s role was merely in regulating production and distribution. But Yamamoto correctly pointed out that private property was merely a disguise for market socialism.
AEN: Did he ever come under fire for his views?
OKON: Certainly. But he never compromised his relentless arguments. For example, on the nationalization of electricity, he pointed out that the question of whether this or that facility ought to be built is not a technical question but an economic one, which can only be settled by market exchange. He also pointed out that one intervention inevitably leads to more to correct the distortions generated in the first round, a process that ends in the total state.
In 1941, a collection of these blistering writings appeared as A Criticism of the Planned Economy*. It is a great book. But just as soon as it was published, the authorities banned it and forced it out of print. So it was never circulated widely and, sadly, never came back into print.*
AEN: And then after the war?
OKON: This is when tragedy struck. General MacArthur’s occupation forces put Japan under martial law. They rounded up intellectuals suspected of having sympathies with the imperial system. Yamamoto, even as an outspoken free-market economist, was targeted and accused of being an imperial sympathizer. I can think of many things to say about him, but this is not among them. It was the height of ironies. Nonetheless, Yamamoto was jailed by MacArthur for a grueling two years.
During this time, he was forbidden from publishing anything, which accounts for the gap in his vita from 1942 to 1945. It seems tragedy had struck Austrians all over the world. At a time when Mises was struggling to get a job in the U.S., after having been forced to flee his homeland, Yamamoto was jailed by occupation forces in his own country.
After getting out of jail, Yamamoto immediately went back to work on his life’s mission. He worked to establish a Liberal Party of Japan, drafted a plan for post-war economic recovery, was professor of economics at Chuo Gakuin University, and was elected to the Diet five times.
AEN: It appears that Yamamoto’s life and intellectual interests parallel that of Mises’s and Hayek’s.
OKON: Yes, even on the question of Keynesianism. In 1955, the Liberal Party and the Democratic Party merged, and the new party made Keynesianism its official economic doctrine. The government’s Economic Council Board was renamed the Economic Planning Agency. It produced a “Five Year Plan for Economic Self-Support,” which not only gave the projected figures for the next year but also spelled out needed measures to implement the plan.
Yamamoto criticized the plan by pointing out that the government cannot determine the correct prices for countless goods and services. It can’t know all the people’s demands. It can’t forecast people’s abilities and available resources. It can’t anticipate all available technologies and it can’t account for potential natural disasters. He said the only institution that can do these and properly respond to unexpected changes is the free market. Also, during this period, he wrote a book in tribute to Ludwig Erhard, the German free-market reformer.
AEN: And the welfare state?
OKON: The Japanese welfare state began about this same time, in 1955. The new party imposed a series of programs, like unemployment insurance, social security, a guaranteed national income. In 1957, the Kishi cabinet pushed the slogan, “The Abolition of Poverty (By Government Activity).”
Welfare systems are never stable, especially not social security. The revenues are used to fund the present generation, so it’s unclear whether my generation will receive anything from the program. The government has tried to solve this situation through an ever-rising tax rate. But clearly that can’t work forever.
All this was predicted by Yama- moto in his book A Warning About Social Security: Its Limit in a Free Society, which appeared in 1961. Later came his even more controversial book Welfare and the Ruin of the Country (1975*).* Here he argued against the idea of dependency on government, on the grounds that it is contrary to true social cooperation. You will be pleased to know this book was dedicated to Mises, Hayek, and Roepke, who, Yamamoto says, most strongly influenced his thought.
AEN: What was Yamamoto’s last book about?
OKON: It was a collection of articles published in 1980 under the title The Struggle Against Socialism*. In one particularly important chapter, he deals with how markets accommodate drastic and shocking change much better than government can. In “severe trials of reality,” like natural disasters and oil shocks, firms and families adapt themselves to changes in accord with their own needs, while government intervention can only obstruct the attempt to deal with these trials."*