The Libertarian Running Track

A home invader hasn’t signed a contract, but they would be evicted even faster than a tenant.

The land lord gets to make the rules because they were there first. (Conflicts require a solution, and rights through homestead is the best solution for man’s needs) Mr Callahan is being disingenous, he’s comparing unlike things. Pointing out that there isn’t always a clear owner does not disprove the rights of someone who is a clear owner.

The state is a usurper, there is no older assessment than that. Callahan simply refuses to accept that so he appeals to doubt “Well, a hippie sunbathing might not be a usurper, so then the state can’t be one either.” Fail.

Edit: Callahan refuses to accept that the state is not a valiable option because he fears the consequences. His appeal to doubt(and attempt to shift the burden of proof) is required because of his subjective ideas on what should be and what shouldn’t be. Oops, so much for being above “ideology”.

That is quite apparent merely by the fact that Giles is the one posting it.

Well, it certainly was not me.

What does “self-ownership” mean?

“It is silly to call libertarianism an ideology. In that case everything is an ideology and the term is meaningless.”

This makes as much sense as: “It is silly to call chickens birds. In that case, everything is a bird and the term is meaningless.”

"Callahan refuses to accept that the state is not a valiable option because he fears the consequences. "

Ys, let’s make up bad motives for our opponents and psycholgize their arguments, because that makes it easy to render them less “valiable.”

No, Jeff, ideology is the attempt to substitute theoretical understanding for prudence – see Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics.

“I think this is even too strong. Sure, certain libertarians might use the above argument in their rhetoric, but if pushed they’ll probably turn to the NAP…”

Incredible! The circular argument I’m critiquing IS the NAP!

do you want to argue about what constitutes property? justice? etc. ?

if so, what norms must be presupposed to have that argument?

nirgrahamUK, are you asking me this?

nirgrahamUK, are you asking me this?

Sure

p.s. I believe Sphairon is German, and perhaps he can be excused for having misinterpreted this idiom: The circle is not unbroken, and there is no better ancap home in the sky, Lord, in the sky.

“It is silly to call libertarianism an ideology. In that case everything is an ideology and the term is meaningless.”

This makes as much sense as: “It is silly to call chickens birds. In that case, everything is a bird and the term is meaningless.”


Except not everything is a bird…

What I mean is that libertarianism compared to everything else (statist, democrats, conservatives etc) is the least idealogical political theory (in the bad sense of the word). So to call it that would make every single political theory an ideology (like marx tries to do) and so unless you got something brand new and ‘true’ the term is meaningless.

From here:http://gene-callahan.blogspot.com/2010/05/napping-at-wheel.html

Now, to be very clear, in many of my recent post, such as this one, I have been concerned with a narrow topic: does the “non-aggression principle,” employed as libertarians typically employ it, somehow point to libertarianism as a uniquely correct political stance? Is it true that all other political doctrines are “in favor of aggression”?

The reason I note the narrowness of my concern here is because of the startling number of times, as I’ve made these posts, that someone has responded something like, “Why do you claim libertarians have no reasons for their beliefs?”

Say what?! I have been pointing out that this one argument is circular, and therefore flawed. The response above is as if, when you tell your friend, “The fact you eat tunafish is not really evidence you love your wife,” he responds, “Oh, so you’re saying I don’t love my wife!” No, maybe you do; I’m just saying the tunafish argument is a bad argument.

A variation on the above is the response, “Oh, so you’re saying it’s OK not to love your wife?” (“See, Callahan is arguing against any morality whatsoever” or “Callahan has embraced moral relativism.”) Crimminy. Pointing out that one argument for one moral position is wrong now equates to moral relativism?! Well, it’s often easier to just invent your opponent’s position yourself and then attack it, because you can make it noce and vulnerable before you charge.

In any case, here I want to address the rubbish I’ve heard put forward a number of times by libertarians that “Anyone who is not a libertarian is in favor of aggression!” Let us again proceed by analogy.

Imagine, if you will, a doctor, Dr. Smith, who sincerely believes that arsenic is good for newborns, and recommends it for infants in a book. Now, it seems obvious to me that it is an abuse of language to claim “Dr. Smith is in favor of killing babies!” It is true that his advice, if followed,would result in the death of babies. But Dr. Smith loves babies, and is in favor of their flourishing – he is just in error about what they need to flourish.

Similarly, Hobbes believes he has presented a good case for the necessity of a single sovereign in a society. (By the way, I like to use Hobbes as an example not because I am a Hobbesian, but because his straightforward case is easy to handle in a brief post.) Given that he believes his own case, it should be obvious that Hobbes does not think his sovereign engages in aggression by, say, collecting taxes. Now, Hobbes may be mistaken, but it is ridiculous to say he “favors aggression.” No, he favors peace, but may, in fact, be mistaken about what constitutes peace. And pointing this out does not imply “So, you think Hobbes’ political philosophy is just as good as libertarianism” or anything of the sort. It just means libertarians really ought to stop wielding the blunt propaganda slogan of “You’re an aggressor” and deal with their opponents’ actual arguments instead.

Seriously, it’s going to be real embarrassing for you guys when he takes out Rothbardianism in a few blog posts.

Seriously, it’s going to be real embarrassing for you guys when he takes out Rothbardianism in a few blog posts.

lolwut!?

Seriously, it’s going to be real embarrassing for you guys when he takes out Rothbardianism in a few blog posts.

I really don’t see that happening Giles. When I have more time later I will write out a response. For now, I just want to ask if Murphy and Callahan ever rejoined Kinsella’s response to their criticism of Hoppe. I had a list somewhere of various criticisms but can’t find it right now. Also regarding the charge of circularity, read D1 from page 9 here. I’m pretty sure that Hoppe had a lot to say about that somewhere as well.

He does not favour aggression (as in all aggression). But he does favour something which is aggression.

Dr. Smith does not favour killing babies. But he is favouring something which is killing babies. (Namely giving them arsenic.)

So yes, actually everyone who is not a libertarian favours something which is aggression.

Or to say it differently, he favours what is aggression when it comes to collecting taxes.

The argument boils down to saying that aggression as such is not a value of Hobbes, but who says that anyway? Why would Rothbardians concern themselves with someone’s personal values?

Seriously, it’s going to be real embarrassing for you guys when he takes out Rothbardianism in a few blog posts.

Telling from his last try, we’re going to have to wait for a while.

Yes, let’s ignore my post and play the victim.

So you disagree that the State’s actions are inherently unjust, fair enough, that requires a subjective value judgement. What makes voluntary trade any more just than robbery? Only man’s valuation of the two. But I don’t imagine you’re going to get very far with people using an argument that murder, rather than being inherently unjust, is actually only “often unjust.”

As for building a society its a fact that a society built on peace will better fullfills man’s needs(really, wants) than one built on exploitation(in the traditional meaning).

But the state itself agrees with us and not you about the justness of it actions. Its forbids its citizens to treat each other in the same way that it treats all of them.

Did you expect to shake the foundation of Libertarianism by pointing out, to Austrian economists, that value is subjective?