Currently, I am of the opinion that minarchists are as much libertarian, as the social contract is a contract, or Intellectual property is property. They are kind of poser-libertarians.
I take the Hoppe perspective that you either choose to accept the state or reject it. Any argument other than this one is a question of “how much slavery are you willing to tolerate?” and the only option for pure libertarians is to reject the state in all cases.
What are your thoughts?
painful to say this sometimes, as even Mises was no AnCap.
And according to Noam Chomsky the only “true” libertarians are the ones who viruntly criticize and oppose capitalism since throughout history most “libertarians” have been commies (and you, Texas Trigger, are a poser).
I think minarchists are less libertarian than anarchists because they don’t adhere consistently to the self-ownership and non-aggression principles. They advocate a minimal state employing aggression against (would-be) competitors.
Since when did anyone on this forum respect the opinion of Noam Chomsky. A man who subscribes to anarcho-syndicalism; the only political philosophy more absurd and ill-conceived than socialism.
Yeah, he’s a brilliant linguist, but he is referring to a totally different use of the word. You don’t see any of us confusing a liberal in the modern sense with the classical meaning of the word, do you?
1) And according to Noam Chomsky the only “true” libertarians are the ones who viruntly criticize and oppose capitalism since throughout history most “libertarians” have been commies (and you, Texas Trigger, are a poser).
Geneologically speaking, this is correct - the word “libertarian” and “anarchist” has an association with anti-capitalistic and even ant propertarian leftism. I think it may even have that conotation to this day in Europe, However, in America this is tilting at windmills.
It is like most liberterians here trying to take back the word “liberal” - it a stupid counter productive idea
Your average guy off the street who calls him self a libertarian has no clue what “anarcho capitalism” or “the Austrian School” is, nor does he know who Rothbard is. Liberterianism is simply not an esoteric acadamic term anymore, but refers to a real socio-political phenomena that affects all stripes of people (which I would think should be ultimately seen as a good thing). It is probably best just to deal with it as such, rather than go “purging” fake libertarians - and try to communicate with people on their own terms.
There’s no hard definition of libertarian. It’s an umbrella terms that a lot of people like to use. I include minarchists, AnCaps, other voluntaryists, and left-libertarians. I do not include state-socialists and minimal-Republicans, though. You have to draw the line somewhere, imo. As in I can’t call Stalin a libertarian. Words just lose meaning at that point.
Since when did anyone on this forum respect the opinion of Noam Chomsky. A man who subscribes to anarcho-syndicalism; the only political philosophy more absurd and ill-conceived than socialism.
Chomsky is not completely disrespected here. I do find many of his ideas and critiques ridiculous and easily demolished, but some of his ideas are respected (ask vive if you want to know more).
About the AnSyn part - To me, at least, it’s much more favorable than socialism. Or maybe I’m thinking of AnCom.
I would say Minarchists are indeed libertarian in the party ideology sense. However, I would say they are less consistant with their principles than an ancap might be. For example, while I share most principles of libertariansism, I do not consider myself libertarian since, apparently, there can even be socialists who are cosniderred libertarian. ( I am an ancap)
A post on a blog that sums up my views in the matetr can be read here, I hope it adds to the conversation.
When I used to subscribe to minarchism it was because I liked some of what anarchists had to say but not all of it. I came to the conclusion that I could not accept the logical conclusions of the moral premises I’d based my political philosophy on and thus I rejected those moral premises as well as minarchism.
Are minarchists libertarians? Well that depends on how one defines libertarian. If a libertarian is, as Block says, one who subscribes to inviolable property rights and the NAP then minarchists are not libertarians.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but outside of some policy critiques, I have no idea how much I can talk about LL’s. To me they are a notoriously ambiguous species where I always “misrepresent their postion”. Keynesians, sane Conservatives, smarter Marxists, neoclassicals can actually say something I can wrap my head around - LL’s and fringe radical neo-leftists have yet to prove to me they are saying anything. And American styled Left Libs have yet to prove they are saying anything we are not.
We should do a 'Crocidile Hunter" styled documentary examining their various habits, rituals, and customs. Maybe that would help shed light on the matter
