What are you prepared to do? Again.

Economics Political Theory
1

I have modified several areas regarding the Liberty Colony with the goal of eliminating what appeared to be contentious issues regarding some of the mechanisms for establishing the Colony. The goal of course remains unchanged which is to establish a free society. Your participation and comments are welcome.

I am sure some of you will object to various aspects of the current modifications and my intention is not and will not be to placate every possible opinion. Where there are reasonable ways to improve the process that will not endanger the overall goal then those accomadations can be made. There is often a misconception in the freedom movement that freedom means no responsiblity and no organization. A free society must still have organization and individual responsibility and accountability.

2

Post the link to the site please.

3

www.libertycolony.com

4

I am afraid that I find the Liberty Colony worrying.

First, there is a painting of the the French Revolution: that prototype of State Terror.

Then there is the statement that each person will be given 5 acres. Given by whom? How did this donor get the land in the first place? Why is he being so generous? How did he arrive at 5 acres as being the suitable amount. One 5 acres will not the same as another. People have different skills and different amounts of land will be relevant to different people. It smacks of serfdom. Why don’t people buy the land?

And there are the countries listed. How is one going to set up a country within those countries. These countries will expect their laws to be followed, and their taxes to be paid. I almost fell of my chair when I saw Equatorial Guinea listed. One of my neighbours had a not dissimilar idea and is now committed to spending 32 years there.

Should it if it ever gets off the ground, I imagine that it will end up as a cross between the Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm.

Sorry, Max.

5

The painting is titled “Liberty Leading the People”. It seemed appropriate.

People are homesteading their land. The land would obviously be unclaimed land. There is no need to buy the land because it isn’t owned by anybody. The original colonists homestead the land and can then sell it or do whatever they want.

I think you are missing the point of establishing a free society.

Well, I do not have a monopoly on creating a free society. What is it that you are prepared to do?

6

7

I’m sorry to report that my response remains the same: I’m going to keep my home, and fight for it as best I can.

8

There are other ways to support the Liberty Colony. I have mentioned about the investment opportunities in the Liberty Colony such as an onlne gold currency platform. I understand that not everyone will want to or be able to move to the Liberty Colony but there are other ways to participate.

9

I like the idea, I doubt I would participate because I don’t feel the chance of success is high enough to warrant the risk involved, so perhaps I’ll help you out in noting some things about your proposed locations.

  1. Antigua and Barbuda. Be aware that this is a Commonwealth Realm and as such you may be going up against the United Kingdom as well as the local authorities.

  2. Dominica. Another member of the Commonwealth.

  3. Fiji. A myriad of troubles. Ethnic conflict runs high there, I have some doubt that injecting a bunch of foreigners that wish to secede will be taken lightly. A military coup just took place and I have doubts that the military government will be as restrained as a civilian one might. Another Commonwealth realm.

  4. Grenada. Commonwealth realm.

  5. Haiti. Their government is beginning to stabilize and is now pro-West. America has a history of intervening there and may be willing to help Haiti deal with an influx of pesky foreigners.

  6. Marshall Islands. Member of the Compact of Free Association - i.e., a US puppet state.

  7. Nauru. All land is already privately owned (to some extent) and Non-Nauruans are legally forbidden from owning land.

  8. Solomon Islands. Commonwealth Realm.

  9. Somalia. At first glance perhaps an obvious choice, but remember that imperialist ambitions of the UN, AU, USA, and Ethiopia are all aimed at establishing a strong central government there.

  10. Tuvalu. Commonwealth Realm.

Just some thoughts for you to consider when you’re doing this. I don’t know much about the other nations you listed, though, from the ones I know anything about, I think Greenland would be a good choice, if there is enough uninhabited arable land to live off of.

10

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately there is no perfect choice. Each have different difficulties. One thing to keep in mind is that the Liberty Colony doesn’t intend to be seen as a bunch of pesky foreigners but rather more like a group of investors and freedom lovers so there is real opporunity to be well received by the locals. Also, there is no desire for confrontation for whatever elements of the state may be functioning in the location of the Liberty Colony.

Also, there are several areas to invest in that don’t require you leaving wherever you are now. Thanks again for the input.

11

I’m getting increasingly excited about this. I have to sign up on your forums yet.

12

I have been to Haiti and it is a place that is very crowded and you will not just be able to “set up” there. The cool thing about the place is that it is totally lawless. The police are generally afraid of people, its one of the few countries I have been in where it is possible to drive around while drinking rum, smoking pot and have a gun on your lap and only have to worry about a shoot out with teenagers in flip flops and not being hassled by cops.

But man…its crazy to want to set up a “Liberty Colony” there. The water is so bad that if you scrub yourself with a washcloth in the shower too hard you will get all these little pustules on your arm.

Also though many of the countries seem “lawless” they are in fact burdend with laws. For fun try this experiment:

Cross into the Democratic Republic of Congo without proper paperwork. Sure it is filled with gunmen and cannibals who do not seem to require any kind of travel or culinary permits at all but I am guessing that a colony filled with non-Africans without the reams of African Military Marxist paperworks will look like a big pinata to them. They will just have to figure out the right way to hit it and have all the candy spill out. (A good friend of mine just completed a tourist guide book to the Congo. I think he is working on one for Somalia as well. Congo (Bradt Travel Guide)

So I guess I have to speak about what I know and what I am willing to do for this project is to advise you not to go to Haiti as a Randian style commune. Go there to enjoy the nightlife (Haiti is fun beyond imagination) but it is dangerous. Like actually dying of Cholora and gunfire type dangerous. Other areas are so infertile that if you just show up and happen to kick a bunch of Haitian squatters off the land, you will place them into a choice of either starving or trying to killl you. Guess which one they are going to pick?

Though I admire your need to make liberty happen I wish you would reconsider another way other than segragating yourself from society and perhaps imposing yourself on another one that does not want to be there.

13

I don’t see it as segregating from society, I see it as segregating from slavery.

14

Couple of suggestions.

You need to develop a solid set of criteria for country choice and narrow down the possibilities. Several posters on this thread have made good points about various countries.

Additionally, I would shoot for a country which already has a Euro/North American expat community. That way, you won’t ‘stand out’ so much.

You might also go check out the Heritage Foundation’s (I know - I know - hold on just a sec) Index of Economic Freedom on the web. Each country is ranked according to specified criteria, and many of those criteria are bulls**t. For example ‘freedom from corruption’ scores many 3rd world countries low, but the USA high. Well, sorry but the USA is one of the most corrupt nations in the world, assessed properly (two words: asset forfeiture - would rather pay a cop off in Mexico during a traffic stop than lose a car because a cop said he ‘smelled marijuana’). In fact, I would discount most of the categories, and focus on one: ‘freedom from government’. As an example, Costa Rica scores an 87.4%, whereas the good ole USA scores only 59.8%. The other one that will matter to you is ‘property rights’, but this one you have to judge carefully. Again as an example, Costa Rica scores 50% (by way of comparison, the USA gets 90%), but that’s mostly because there have been cases where absentee landlords (usually foreigners) bought land and left it sitting empty and unused for years or even decades, whereupon squatters moved and and mixed their labor with it, and the courts found in the squatters’ favor. I think John Locke would have approved, though most Americans - probably including most libertarians - are shocked by such goings ons. So be careful with that one.

At any rate, that’s all I can think of at this point - narrow down that list. Oh, you might also consider that St Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean is the last country on earth where you can purchase citizenship. $250k invested in, say, a house, will net you a passport. IMO, if you are going to expatriate, go all the way. Go for citizenship and sever the ties with the IRS and the US govt once and for all. Just be aware that there is now - as of June - an exit tax in place to which you will need to come to terms. But that applies even to expats who keep their US citizenship, methinks.

Countries to look at seriously, IMO:

Costa Rica

Ecuador

Belize

Panama

I don’t know about Europe or Africa. Would steer clear of Asia, except maybe Thailand, which is beautiful and friendly, but a bit sketchy lately, politically.

Oh, one more thing: have a plan B.

15

Thanks for the input and feel free to join the forums and spread the word about the site. In the current stage for the Liberty Colony this sort of debate is what we need to move the decision process along. As a reminder the current selection process includes a two stage voting process to select the location so we can address a lot of these issues and decide on the best overall location. Thanks again for the input and remember there are other areas to invest in the Liberty Colony without actually going to the location.

16

Well in Haiti I would imagine setting up in a more rural part of the country, away from the big cities where there is a lot less crime. The lawlessness is of course an asset in many ways for the Liberty Colony. I envision the setting up of the Liberty Colony will have an immediate positive impact on the surrounding groups of people as the Liberty Colony will be hiring people for construction, hiring people for security purposes, digging wells and general immediate improvement to the surrounding area.

I think the mindset needed is like the early pilgrims to America in that yes, this is not easy but we know that going in and we can plan for the envrionment we know we will be facing.

Thanks for the input and be sure to join the forums and provide your insight.

17

That’s the way I envision it as well. The locals coming over for dinner or watching the homesteaders from their property with some curiousity.

And yeah, this probably isn’t for people who don’t like to get their hands dirty, or need a lot of consumer comforts.

18

Rural areas in Haiti are filled with decent people. The best area though would be Jacmel…mellow population, not freaked out by foriegners and a crazy dreadlocked guy who waves to people as they enter town. Most important would be the roads…or in the rural areas in Haiti the roads are impassable paths of mud or, during the dry season, impassable paths of dried mud. The road from Port Au Prince to Jacmel is the one of the best in the country that is actually tarmac once you leave Carfour outside of Port Au Prince. The worst are in the rural areas. The road between Hinche and Cap Hatien is almost comically dangerous on so many levels.

Also kidnapping is a bit of a hobby for many people there. Its not like a planned activity either, sometimes people just see you, invite you into their house for a cup of coffee (the coffee in Haiti is excellent) and then they inform you that you are kidnapped and ask who they can phone to ask for 20 million dollars for your safe return (I talked down a voodoo priest from 20 million to $300 in 2004. He had a nice basement).

I hope to go to Niger to hang out with the Tauregs in 2009 but I have to hone up on my French and Camel husbandry.

19

My guess is, because I sense y’all don’t hang out with hippies and such like I do, you may not have heard of these, but they could solve - at one shot - a lot of the challenges you will be facing when it comes to building houses, getting power run to them, water, sewage/septic, etc in a foreign country. I’ve actually looked into this in some detail as one option I continue to hold out is expatriation.

BTW, for those who want to stay and fight - fine by me, hope you get lots before you’re done, but if you got kids, and a draft comes (and oh yeah it’s comin’, IMO - for girls and boys), my suggestion is you put your machismo back where it belongs and make your kids safe first. Expatriating should be on every responsible parent’s short list if they can manage it.

Anyway, here’s the deal:

Don’t build houses. Build earthships. Click on ‘videos tab’ - watch #6 and #8 (look for numbered tabs below screen). I’ve got the books that actually detail how to construct them and I can tell you these things are for real. Look up ‘garbage warrior’ on youtube for a trailer from the documentary.

No need for heating or AC. No need for external power, which will be sketchy anyway in most of the places you’re considering. Sewage management, including greywater/blackwater (better: go for a solar toilet - no blackwater to deal with) systems which irrigate edibles. Rainwater harvesting. Self sufficiency and sustainability is the key here - but these ain’t no stinking cob or straw bale houses. The aesthetics kick ass, IMO.

Obviously, you would have to set things up securely - so that nobody steals your solar panels, for example. But you could even open a business doing this, showing the locals how to build sustainable, self sufficient houses. That would go a long way toward integration into the local community and providing value. That’s the way I would (and will, if it comes to that) do it - you will need good will from the locals no matter where you go. IMO, this will be one of the defining factors in whether you are able to succeed. If you try to go set up as a gringo enclave that doesn’t know or respect or integrate with the culture, you won’t last. My opinion.

But the beauty thing is: you can build these mostly yourselves. A little carpentry and plumbing skill needed, but nothing like what you need to build a ‘normal’ (aka absurdly non-functional) house. Probably some electrical to install and hook up the power module. Plans start for $5500 and go up from there.

20

Eh? Well, it depends on the circumstances, including how old they are. It may be necessary to fight. It may be necessary to flee.

That’s interesting. Thanks for the link. Probably the only way I’ll live like a colonist is on another planet or moon though - if things get really bad here on earth. Check out Allen Steele’s Coyote, a hard science fiction colonization book with libertarian themes. I’d probably help hijack a colony ship. :o)