I’m working on a space game on and off (very slowly), and I want to inject elements of real economics into it. I think I’m set on most of that, but it occurred to me that Earth’s precious metals probably wouldn’t be as valuable in a universe with many colonized planets, space mining, etc.
What do you guys think? Is there some other resource or commodity that would satisfy the function of money in space?
Spice. I saw it in Dune.
I’ve been thinking of this a bit recently. I think precious metals will always retain the function of money, and I think that metals will travel with or be mined by us on our space travels.
It also depends on what kind of society we are talking about here. Are they permanently living on another planet or moon? How advanced is their technology? Interplanetary? Interstellar, Intergalactic?
I have some ideas. I think food (fruit, vegetables, etc) will be used as money. Seeds could also be easily transported and used in an exchange. New crops, food sources, plants, and other agricultural products will be desired when interplanetary space colonization is starting out.
Flaklar dust; it’s quite pretty, and makes for wonderful jewelry.
Have you played Eve?
Think of a rare ore mined out of roids. That could be the commodity.
Also if oyu have a big universe consider having different commodities in different regions. Perhaps the ore is too rare in other regions its not fit to be money(assuming that doesn’t overly complicate the game)
IMO Sci-fi is the perfect setting for an ancap game or fiction story. I’m interested in what your plans are on this. You should PM me if you have any details written down any where.
Nah… considered it for a bit, but ultimately decided not to. What does that game use?
Interstellar travel would be considered common. Permanent habitation on planets and moons.
Seeds would make sense. But for simplicity (since I can’t implement a supercomputer that can decide a whole economy… that’d be statism), I would need to decide on one commodity. Maybe soybeans? That idea kind of turns me off, though.
I ask because the game is essentially Anarcho-Capitalism online when flying in Nullsec. but they don’t use commodity money, they use Isk. However, Minerals have really become the de-facto replacement for isk. People don’t necessarily carry pools of isk as they do minerals. Minerals are the life blood of eve. The most basic units are created from minerals. From there your Space Stations, All forms of spaceships, among other things get built from that.
It really just makes alot of sense. In fact if someone was to actually look at Eve from an economic standpoint I’m sure they would find some very interesting phenomena that would support all sorts of ancap analogies.
Nullsec space is essentially where the game’s “police” do not exist. It’s basically where the simulated “State” ends and the “Player” managed space begins. It’s ancap in every sense of the word and it’s marvelous, profitable, and dangerous, and fun!
Any ways I edited my earlier post, I didn’t know you’d get back to it so quickly. Check it out. (About minerals)
I don’t think specific types of food make sense. Since it’s going to change from planet to planet, system to system. And if we are to assume that your civilization is spacebound then they probably have an extremely advanced pool of capital goods. This is why I think of minerals. The building blocks that feed the lifeblood of an intergalactic civilization.
I’d put whatever you select (depends on what’s available in game of course, it needs to be abundant enough to be divisible and convenient) through the “currency test” (google something like “characteristics of money” for more, there are lots of differing descriptions). I’m sure Rothbard wrote about this somewhere too but couldn’t say where.
Quick example I came across in 2 seconds of looking:
General acceptability:The essential quality of a good money material is that it would acceptable to all without any hesitation in exchange for goods and services.
Stability of value:
Another very important attribute of a good money material is that it should be fairly stable in value. If the commodity chosen as money is subject to violent fluctuations, then that is useless money. Money is the standard by which we measure the value of all other commodities and if the standard itself is influenced by changes in its demand and supply, then how it can serve as perfect money.
Transportability:
The commodity chosen should be easily transportable without any depreciation. It should have a large value in small bulk.
Storability:
Another requisite of good money material is that it should be storable without depreciation. If the commodity chosen as money is perishable, then that cannot as good money.
Divisibility:The commodity chosen as money should be capable of being re united without losing its value.
Homogeneity:The commodity selected as money should be of a uniform quality and capable of standardization.
Congizability:One very essential condition of perfect money is that it should be easily recognizable by the aye, ear or the touch. (I’d also add, or directly specify anyway, that this includes “non-counterfeitability”.)
I’ve actually thought about the idea of currency in games quite a bit. It’s a very, very complicated subject (more so than currency in real life, hah!) because it is still a game after all, and you can’t always have AI and/or players with complete control over what is used as currency (it’ll be too distracting from the game itself).
You could try not forcing the player to use any type of currency, but then you might be deviating too far from the game’s focus. In the absence of government criminals enforcing ‘legal tender’, currency would develop on it’s own anyway, but to simulate this I think your game would have to be very economically sophisticated. You’d be trying to simulate human actions and decision making, after all.
Anyway… still for most games I’d recommend being a little tyrannical and simply deciding on what to use as a currency, simply because you’d be massively increasing the scope otherwise.
Well, Eve does have the (basically fiat) “ISK” currency. But part of the reason it’s used by everyone is simply because the game was built that way. If it were designed in such a way that everything required bartering, players would have started to identify one or more “favored” items which meet their currency needs and they’d be using that instead. I’ve made similar suggestions to other game designers before in the past (but keep in mind it’s probably only possible in MMO online type games because AI is probably too stupid.)
It would be really interesting if they tried to do away with ISK entirely. I bet that’d make an interesting thread on the forums. [;)]
There are some good threads about this in (I believe) the game design forum on gamedev.net, a few of which I participated in (you could probably find me [:P]). It’s a big challenge making this realistic, so I’d imagine you’ll have to figure out what level of compromise you’d like.
Oh, as for actual commodity suggestions, an easy way out would be simply to invent some new material (actually that’s just like Dune’s “spice”)-- but whatever you do, please, no fiat currencies. lol
I have seriously thought about possibly implementing a barter system, from which a currency could emerge by the players’ interactions. You mentioned AI being too stupid, and this is one of the drawbacks I’m considering (although my game will be made with a massively-multiplayer focus in mind). I already plan to have very rudimentary supply/demand effects in place.
Another thing, although this is more of just a gameplay mechanic, is “cargo room” aboard a ship. So although there will be many tradeable commodities, they will probably trade in extremely large volumes (to make up for the cost of space travel, etc.).
I might have to try the free trial, then, or something, because this sounds a lot like the atmosphere I want to create. I’m trying not to be too preachy with my design (leaving some room for small governments), but there’s definitely going to be a huge element of private defenses and voluntaryism.
Gold-pressed-Latinum
Oxygen.
I’ll get in contact with you so I can give you a tour when your ingame. There’s alot to take in. One thing to take from Eve is how NOT to make the learning curve of your game.
SPACE CASH!
My guess is whatever fuel the ships run on. It depends, what’s the overall setting? In a war setting, I could imagine laser batteries being used, for instance.
Oh duh, why the fuck didn’t I think of that…
Oxygen would make sense if people primarily lived in space, but planets will be colonized. And even today we have oxygen recycling capabilities.