What is the Ruling class?

We can’t because Left-Libertarians continue to perpetuate this strawman myth as being an ideological and pervasive problem, not a marginal non-libertarian one. That mythology is key to their differentiation (which means it is completely contrived) much like how exploitation (zero sum economics) is key to Marxism. Ironically, you will see a lot of Marxist positions and tactics mixed in with the LLs as they see themselves as a revolutionary movement, whereas I think Austro-Libertarians see this as an evolutionary movement.

Also, this does not apply to all LLs, but several I would be happy to name. And likewise I don’t claim to speak for all austro-libertarians.

Blast! Is there any political ideology Marxism has not infected!? [:P]

Funny thing is, I was browsing the LL forums the other day, only to see one of the adversts was for Mises’ Marxism Unmasked.

Not many. I’m quite happy about it really. The so-called revolutionary tactics have never worked, so anyone stupid enough to adopt them won’t be able to spread their bad ideas.

You really, really, really have to give Jeffrey Tucker and Lew Rockwell credit, whether you agree with their positions or not, that they have built a first class outfit without coercion. That they are leading the charge because they have embraced their philosophy and practically applied it.

If the anti-capitalists embraced their philosophy, they would have to get off of Blogger and YouTube.

I would be in favor of some sort of topology of collaboration or topology of interaction to help clarify what makes a state-business any of the three statuses: complicit, implicit, or submissive, complicit meaning truly in bed with the state, implicit meaning a business may or may not be complicit, & submissive to designate businesses that comply with the state only to the point of generating a profit & being capable to operate. To give a better illustration, perhaps this would be based upon Rothbard’s conception of the topology of coercion.

As to how a business could be categorized, it could be based on an analysis of the businesses history of operation, which would certainly be an empirical undertaking, but if data supported the designations between various businesses (in anecdote, one can surmise they know plenty of people who operate businesses but by no means have lobbying efforts or contort state law for profit, so the concept isn’t far off, I don’t think), it certainly would hurt to explore.

Further, one could also see a business as beginning submissive, but evolving to become implicit, then eventually complicit, based on various factors, but most of which boils down to the sum total of individual’s activities that guide the business itself (which would prevent assuming that all businesses would evolve to become complicit, but would also avoid the assumption that none would).

Individuals involved with businesses who hold the state to be a valid mechanism & even coercion to be valid, would most certainly influence the direction of the company / business; the same would be true of individuals who are anti-coercive, & would find operating a businesses as submissive to the state, but complicit, to be in their best interest (submissive would be somewhat a mis-nomer, morally, but for those who have an interest in operating in the state markets, it’s an apt description).

Not to ignore agorism, which I think would be the solution for those who do not want to operate in state markets, but I just made this up all on the spot, so yea. Even though that idea is not perfect (far from it), it’s a lot more productive than the LL continually feeding into their own mythology about the scourge of the Right Libertarians, & vice-versa, both mystifying the actual status of the other side importance & influence, & whether either side is really as significant as one or the other may claim.

Both are hurting the libertarian movement with concerns for social & ideological influence, & for injecting their values into concepts that need not such values, regardless how “correct” a given individual views either “cultural conservatism” or “cultural marxism”, to be.

If I wanted to root or boo sports teams, I’d go down to the pub & do it, not here.

I agree. But it’s hard not to look at this and see it for the strawman myth it is. There really are no right libertarians. There is no right libertarian alliance, there are no right libertarian blog groups.

Even Ron Paul’s revolution, was as much a non-Republican experience as it was a Republican experience. He had anarchists, libertarians, democrats, greens etc all pushing for him. In fact, I suspect this is what pisses so many people off about Ron Paul. He was able to unite the tribes by keeping the message simple, without adding all of the ideological baggage of different factions. He was able to bring people to libertarianism and anarchism by not imposing social values (thickening it up) into the equation.

On the other hand, we clearly have the LL faction. They go out of their way to identify themselves. Not only that, they go out of their way to positively define their opposition, whether it exists or not!

In the past, I have categorized myself as “right libertarian” to differentiate myself from those who so clearly define themselves left, as I neither share their ideas or tactics. But I was wrong to do so. I was allowing someone else to define a libertarian political spectrum I do not believe in.

So I am an ancap. I think one of Cork’s recent posts summed it up fairly well. I am definitely not left, and I am definitely not what the left calls right.

I want to live without coercion, and all that implies. Nothing more, nothing less. I am happy to collaborate with everyone who feels the same.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1735

“Wal-Mart found itself on the other side of the table this week when the Hercules, Calif., City Council decided to use eminent domain to stop Wal-Mart from opening a new store in town. The council voted to seize Wal-Mart’s land. Wal-Mart now finds itself to be the victim of the same strategy it has used to gain a foothold in other communities: using the threat of eminent domain to pressure property owners to sell.

I remembered reading the headline on this quite some time ago. It still a bit amusing, methinks.

Oh yeah, and Nitro, sorry if it seemed like I was yelling at you. I did not intend to.

whats your point? if you want to believe that wal-mart has never justly acquired property, you are more than welcome to believe fantasies.

No worries, I thought yelling was usually typified by CAPS, not bolded words, anyway.

That you don’t know what you are talking about.

I never said that.

ok, so tell me how wal-mart uses eminent domain. are you with BP in believing that wal-mart is a company that exploits eminent domain?, when someone says that they are implying that the company uses the government as a proactive business policy to maintain success.

So they sometimes use eminent domain, and sometimes purchase land at market prices, these people are really tricky.

Why should I ? Do your own homework.

You made a wrong assertion and it seems are not honest enough to admit it. Too bad.

I have nothing against big business in a free market but that doesn’t mean I’m a wal-mart worshiper in the current mixed economy.

If Bob & Mary don’t want to sell ‘voluntarily’, wal-mart (or similar firms/people) call the cops, who are on their payroll. What’s so strange about that ? It seems you don’t want to admit that wal-mart and others are unprincipled and corrupt. Your problem.

yeah, you really don’t know any details of how wal-mart has allegedly used eminent domain to their advantage. sad because you’re comfortable just parroting back some populism to sound rebellious. linking me to some pithy one line remark in an article that really does nothing to support your overall premise won’t cut it.

i doubt that has ever really happened. little sellers like private homeowners and small business know a firm like wal-mart can pay them millions of dollars for real estate, and wal-mart does pay millions for property.

It’s taken me more than a year, and Juan cursing at me by PM to realize that he isn’t doing this. His actual position is quite reasonable, he just makes pointed critiques that piss people off and then they attribute false positions to him.

Coincidentally, I believe Rothbard said Hoppe had the same effect on people.

And if Juan wants to make statements like those he’s going to have to back them up with evidence. Otherwise, next time you disagree with me, I’ll respond “you’re wrong, but it’s ok, you made a mistake and I know it. Now go do your homework to see why”.

Indeed, we should all back up our statements Giles.

Juan is correct iirc that Walmart has used eminent domain before (although I am not 100% sure this is official Walmart policy). Fez is saying that Walmart doesn’t always use eminent domain. They are talking past each other.

You and I don’t have that problem. Our conversations are much simpler. You say stuff that is wrong, and I explain why it is wrong.

just kidding

i’ve been searching up and down for all this eminent domain that walmart allegedly uses. haven’t found one, except this news story out in utah where an angry mob protested walmart bulldozing over old houses.

Wal-Mart Warms to the State - Rockwell.


The Ultimate Pro-Wal-Mart Article

Reader’s comment (blog) : “How about Walmarts use of eminent domain? Is that the market economy at work?”

Author’s reply : “No it’s not, and I’m against eminent domain. But it’s a minor point compared to the enormous benefit.”


Why Wal-Mart Matters

"The company’s post-hurricane magnanimity notwithstanding, Wal-Mart has attracted criticism from free-market advocates in recent years because of its recent turn toward political rather than economic competition.

Wal-Mart has gotten subsidies from local governments in the form of tax abatements, tax increment financing, tax-financed infrastructure improvements, and the use of eminent domain. These practices provide Wal-Mart with an advantage over smaller firms that do not have access to the “political means” to wealth."


http://www.walmartsubsidywatch.org/search.html


Now, I admit I couldn’t find direct links to concrete cases of wal-mart using eminent domain. In my defense, I can say that at least three libertarian authors(not counting L. Rockewll) take for granted that wal-mart does use eminent domain. And they are not Carson…