I can understand the need to adapt to the system, but to be taken seriously you need to be consistent with your ideals.
If you live in a totalitarian country it makes a lot of sense to join the Party and climb through the ranks, but that’s probably not how you’ll change things.
Who cares about a few hippie losers?
Mutualism is just an attempt to base a political philosophy on childish rebellion against authority. Which exactly why the forums of the libertarian left is just the same as all leftist organization, a bunch of young white males in their 20s and 30s who don’t have a job, a life or any friends complaining about how they feel oppressed by the capitalist system, meanwhile pretending to be radical.
On the other hand the right libertarians are actually getting things done.
So a message to the left libertarians: fuck off, take a shower, lay off the joints and get a job.
As for the term vulgar libertarian. It’s a joke, it’s just used to attack the capitalist social hierarchy that the leftists unfortunately find themselves at the bottom of. Nobody should care about a small vocal minority that has never, and will never, acheive anything. At the end of the day when the state collapses they’ll still be trading weed for carrots and claiming that it was their doing, when the family and church rise up in place of the state they’ll be crying for a new state to get rid of them.
Let the pseudo-intellectuals like Carson be pseudo-intellectuals.
(By the way, this isn’t aimed at all left-libertarians, just the Carsonoids).
Giles
(1) It doesn’t matter what someone does so long as they are non-aggressive
(2) These people are fighting the state and thus, more on our side that against us
(3) We agree that there is a huge amount of distortion due to the state, and that many of the people who are rich did NOT get their money through honest means
(4) It worries me that family and church will “rise up in place of the state”, surely you don’t mean they will arrogate for themselves a monopoly on violence?
No, that’s clearly not what I mean.
[:P]
I consider you a vulgar libertarian because you use a lot of curse words and anger like bad comedians. Manners and gentlemanly language characterizes the ‘civilized libertarian’.
Fundamentalist Christians oppose the state because it’s against the church and also because they’re worried about the precious black families lost to welfare and crappy public schooling. Hence, their belief the church needs to rise up before Christ returns. The earth being almost 6000 years old, it’s about time for him to come around again.
Now, now, words like civilized make you look like some sort of racist.
It’s fairly easy to indentify who they are. They are the people who liked one book by Rothbard written during his hippie phase and hate absolutely everything else published by any Austrian economists, including Rothbard.
Yes I meant it as a joke in that context, but what I really wanted to do is see if Stranger could clarify his statement a bit because it was a bit vague
You say hate as if it is personal to you, Rothbard, or some economist. Or economics is aesthetics. I don’t understand this reactionary view.
If the Austrian’s were all wrong, I would still have the same views I do now. In fact, I rarely read Austrian economics at all. My opinion is not based but is helped by some (but not all) of them. It’s not a big deal.
You can dregde up all the accounts and allegations of Wal-Mart working with zoning commissions, and Exxon buying up alternative energy patents and say, "Zomg Vularg Libertarian to the man who defends the capitalists". But the fact is at the end of the day, corporations et al. are voluntary and market institutions, and consumers engage in market activity. We shouldn’t be ashamed to defend humans who engage in economic action, to seek profit and value.
I’m not coming at this with a “what if”. Your statement here shows Wal-Mart and Exxon not competing in the free market during these exchanges. These exchanges you explained are with “zoning commissions” and “patents” which thereby are exchanges involving a criminal entity called State. Are they not therefore co-conspirators in the crime? And yes, I’m sure I’m a co-conspirator in this crime too. But do I want to be? No. Does Wal-mart and Exxon? I don’t know. Is the difference of desire measured by awareness in crime? Not always. Surely a criminal is aware of the crime (not always), but does it anyways.
But the entire point of the left-libertarian critique of big business and/or corporations is that they aren’t fully voluntary market institutions. This point can be argued, but merely asserting otherwise doesn’t do anything.
They are as volantary as they can possibly be, to the largest extent. shit, everyone is here is vulgar, we all demand federal reserve notes therefor we support the central bank rite? No, it’s a red herring
Sadly enough, i’d say by a pretty big minority, voire the majority; and not only from the left… Then again, it is uninformed BS; using straigh dismissal of alternative ideas, not to have to get engaged into arguments on the substance.
Which is it now? Big business or corporations? The two are different, you know that.
Be more specific. Is Walmart as voluntary as it can possibly be? Perhaps. But what about Boeing? Or Blackwater? Or AIG? As these voluntary institutions. Big business in the United States is heavily influenced by the state, and vice versa, especially in the financial and healthcare industries and the military-industrial complex.
And that exempts big business from colluding with the state… how?
That’s why I made the distinction. There are 2 different LL critiques, that of big business and that of the corporate form specifically, that often get conflated.
Sorry, but that’s not a left libertarian critic at all that’s a basic libertarian critic of mercantilism. And fezwhatley does indeed sound like a ‘vulgar libertarian’.
So on one hand we have mutualists who make correct criticisms on libertarian grounds but also advance their own weird economic theories…
And on the other hand people who would defend the current system because…? Criticizing Wal-Mart means one is a commie. Come on.
I’m pretty sure that if you fezwhatley were to knock ar Wal-Mart’s door and ask them to support radical libertarianism they would throw you out of the window.