I honestly can’t stand them, they are so hardheaded and ignorant. Sorry, but you have to be REALLY gullible or not spend much time looking into the things you advocate if you are a Liberal/Left-Winger.
It seems like EVERYONE is a Liberal here where I live, and %90 of the people advocate all the mainstream arguments.
Because the educational system these people were forced to attend was operated, administrated, created and it’s curricula written by left wingers?
My theory is that the vast majority of adults today had everything they ever needed during their childhood provided for them from birth to the end of college. It’s natural, then, for them to turn to the nanny state as a solution to any and all problems.
Compare this with my grandfather’s day when his schooling ended at age 11 and he had to get a job to help support the family… That kinda situation really drills self-sufficiency into the individual and makes them skeptical about unnecessary governmental interference under the guise of “welfare”.
I agree, for the most part. I think this is related to Schumpeter’s argument, because higher living standards allow more families to attend higher education, provide more for their children, etc., but then those that are born into such a life don’t realize what it took, ideologically speaking, to get there.
I was one of those, until the Ron Paul campaing woke me up. I am not an economist, but I have become “obsessed” with monetary history and read all I can in my free time. I wasnt a marxist socialist, more like a “we need goverment to protect us from evil coportations” socialist, and it was mainly family influence (my mum is a fan of the socialist party).
It is hard to realize how wrong you are. For me changing has been extremely rewarding, but sometime emotionally painful. I guess that is what happens when you undo the brainwashing. You become a better and happier person, but the process is painful. My point is that you should not try to hard on the people. It is better a frinedly aproach. Dont try to convince all at once of everything. The process of undo the brainwashing is long. I have experimented this myself, when I was discovering things and I was so alarmed/furious about what I was discovering that I tried to warn other people but was too vehement. They were not ready, and did not like being pressed. I have discovered that a friendly aproach is allways better.
I used to be quite a happy-go-lucky classical liberal that wanted free markets and limited government if only the “right” people found their way into office. Since I’ve done some thorough reading on economic issues and monetary policy it’s like I’ve been wading through a cesspool: all I’ve found is shit. My cynicism is now reaching Dr. House proportions…
Totally agree to this. The main thing is to do all your own homework and have a reasoned response to whatever government intervention cliche they can put forth. This usually stops them in their tracks and it takes time for your arguments to sink in. Politeness and persistence will pay-off for those who are unwilling or don’t have the time to verse themselves in the reading material. I’ve found printing some of the Mises blog articles, specifically regarding health care, and giving them to people to read when they have time before they go to bed is a good route.
Words do not carry the weight they used to: say you are a Capitalist and you’ll not be taken as a supporter of an economic system but as a Wall Street stooge at the very least. Chances are you’ll probably be insulted for being part of a “decadent” system The joys of Marxism and Hegelian dialectics…
Also consider this. How many self-proclaimed Leftists have read Marx? Saint-Simon? Lenin? Mao? Do they have any idea what are they talking about? Or do they define themselves Leftists simply because it’s fashionable and they vote Democrats (in the US)? Do they know where the term Left and Right come from? Do they realize there isn’t a iota of difference between Left and Right? Of course they don’t, I was just being sarcastic.
Finally a consideration arising from my long experience. Many people carry in their political DNA the equation Left = charitable and selfless Right = greedy and selfish. They usual cannot offer any explanation for this and damn right they cannot. How can a dog explain why he barks on a command that’s been imprinted on it?
Can you explain more about what you have found that is making you thinking about becoming a pain-killer adict? Sounds interesting.
I’m only occasionally on the pain-killers when I have trouble sleeping, but I have become a prolific chain-smoker. [:#]
Basically, it’s the whole compendium of new knowledge and experiences I’ve had looking into just how economics and governments work. It started with the pessimism of coming to the realization that governments were not merely corrupt and inefficient, but downright evil and, morally, needed to be abolished. This I could come to terms with.
But the minute I set my feet into the cesspool of modern fiscal theory and policies I sorely regretted it. It’s one thing losing faith in a detached government entity, and another thing to realize the “wealth” you thought you had was really a flimsy delusion held together by government decree and force. It was even more depressing to find that supposedly intelligent and well-educated people bought into this scam hook, line and sinker.
And then to delve further into the issues and see the extent of Keynesian evil perpetuated upon people via government inflating the money supply, practicing mercantilism and taking on swathes of unfunded debt. The final nail in the coffin is the fact that there are still people in this world who will actively advocate for even more government intervention via Marxist ideals and the labour theory of value. Stuff like that really cooks my goose. [:@]
Discovering that you are an slave, when you have been living all your life under the impression that you are a free man is taugh. That is what I was talking about when I said it was a painful process. But I am very happy with it. I believe that knoledge (real practical knowledge as oposed to intelectual ramble and becoming a theory enciclopedia) is liberating and will help you have a better life. As I see it is a short time pain (discovering and adapting yourself to the new discovered reality) for a mid-long term gain. I allways hated the expression: “The only happy people are the dumb ones”. I think its a expression of pussies. The dumb ones are so dump that dont know they are being fooled and even fool themselves thinking that they are happy. Everytime I have had a step towards a better understanding, maturing if you want, in my life, I have looked back thinking: “How could I though I was happy that way? I was a fool.”
Yes, that gets to me too. I can understand ignorant people, specially economically, since I was one of them not so long ago. But this people that know or think they know what it is about… they get on my nerves. But I am learning to cope with them. Ignoring and laughing at their incongruences tends to be the best answer in my short experience.
I think that we’re forgetting bush was the devil…
At the ranch where I worked last summer, the republicans had basically given up on their party and said they were waiting for another ronald reagan.
You mean a more convincing snake-oil salesman?
Yeah, but you think that’s bad? Try living where everyone is a republican. In my experience, they are mostly just as ignorant. Besides, I’m sure libertarianism is just as much of a reaction toward the left as it is toward the right.
I recommend to you A Conflict of Visions by Thomas Sowell. That book helped me understand where they’re coming from and why.
Also, I suggest reading the Communist Manifesto. I think a lot of the ideology that drove Marx is still alive and well today in the US.
It is progressive, not liberal.
Because it’s easy.
Sorry, but is there even physical proof for this? Or are they just deductions made by a Mises blogger? I’m not sure if I can stomach this unless an actual study has been done with published results.
Wow great discussion.All very good points.
I used to be a left liberal until I discovered Ayn rand and then ron paul and finally Rothbard/Hoppe/Kinsella.
I think I became one because I grew up around people who basically believed in it though they didn’t explicitly acknowledge that.Also the media and state education indoctrinate you to think that way.An important thing to remember in all state educational facilities is the sociological concept the ‘hidden curriculum’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_curriculum
I’ve noticed in most state schools,colleges and universities it’s taken for granted egalitarianism, conservatism is evil, government intervention is good,political correctness is good and a range of what I think of as politically correct statist mainstream causes are championed.
Also I don’t know about anyone else but what I was taught at high school had an effect on my politics too.It was only in my later years there that I began to see through it.Teachers play a vital role as propagandists and court intellectuals for the state (whether they realise this or not and do it intentionally or not.) I would argue this is why it’s most important to seperate education and the state.
a few examples of how my high school’s ‘hidden curriculum’ was pro- government:
History Class: History was constrewed as though before government there was only barren land ,poverty and disease .War’s were glossed over as terrible but necessary.Government was everywhere seen as the saviour.critical thinking was absent.
Geography aka Environmental studies: Here all the leftist political biases shined. Protectionism was the key undertone.While I was taught about hurricanes,tetonic plates etc for the most part it was less science and more politcs. We were taught how fair trade quotas and subsidies helped the poor,we were taught how evil industry was destroying rainforests and polluting and the only solution was tight government controls.We were taught that globalization was destroying native tribes and everywhere was being ‘Americanized’.Foreign Aid was presented as a possible solution to world poverty with only a slight mention that it often doesn’t work.I hear from a friend that these days all that is taught in this subject is global warming alarmism and ‘overpopulation’ scare mongering.
Sociology: society is presented as inherently full of conflict(the deluded marxist view) and thus (bizarrely) government is seen as the solution to this.
I guess it’s just the media ,state education and everyone around you teaches you to believe the statist political and economic lies and then people either truly believe it or just follow like sheep because it’s popular and mainstream.People seem to do this in most intellectual disciplines without most thought.
The mention of philosophy is interesting.I agree.I think the corrosion of critical thinking and rationality due to postmodernism benefits the ruling class greatly since it allows them to hide the iron fist and defuse criticism.Possibly also it allows politicians to think reason isn’t always correct and that it has been defeated staving off any worries they might have that their ideas aren’t as sound as they would like to think.
@ScottF
“A new type of superstition has got hold of peoples minds, the worship of the state. People demand the exercise of the methods of coercion and compulsion, of violence and threat. Woe to anybody who does not bend his knee to the fashionable idols!” - Ludwig von Mises, Omnipotent Government.