Why is Africa Poor?

[Southern]

@MMMark

@Southern

One exception dosent suffice.

Well, I wouldn’t call Botswana an “exception.” I think the example of Botswana is consistent with the idea that the proliferation of wealth needs a certain minimum amount of liberty, within a given society. I think that many of Africa’s other countries don’t meet this minimum. I’m not really saying anything very profound here, obviously.

I was refering to this statement: “I don’t disagree, except in the case of Botswana, whose literacy rate, while not stellar, is certainly higher than some other African countries, and even some other outside countries.” Other than that I agree completely with you here.

@MMMark

@Southern

I could say that Saudi Arabia is a sufficient example of where abondoning liberty and adopting islamic law and institutions create prosperity. Of course, you and I both wouldnt believe that to be true.

But has Saudi Arabia, in fact, “abandoned liberty”? Surely, their society respects property and contracts to at least the minimum degree?

For contracts: Sure they do as long as they are agreed to by men that are muslim, saudi or other accepted ethnicity, of the correct social standing… etc.

For Private Property: As long as its not oil or gold or any other natural resource, because those are owned (or at least controled) the people… aka the state… aka the King. “Its good to be the king”

@MMMark

@Southern

Natural resources are not evenly distributed throughout the world or Africa.

But by the same token, surely they don’t all “happen” to be situated within the borders of Botswana, either. That was what I was trying to get across.

Of course not. But you did say: " The assumption that Botswana is atypically resource rich is both unfounded and unlikely. The resources buried beneath the ground of Africa don’t know or care about the man-made “borders,” arbitrarily drawn on the surface above! More likely is that the entire continent is a vast treasure-trove, as yet mostly undiscovered. This situation will change as Africa becomes increasingly infected with the ideas of liberty." which implies that botswana’s particular natural wealth is not unusual. Which it is. The same way Saudi Arabia’s oil wealth is atypical, or chile’s copper deposit are atypical. Which has made its people wealthier than they would have other wise been.

@MMMark

1. “Ease of access” hasn’t suddenly changed in Botswana.
2. Capitalists don’t care how “easy” a resource is to “access”; they care about whether they can make a profit.

1. agreed

2. Sure they do. Because ease of access to a resource is directly related to the cost of extraction, which is directly related to profit.

@MMMark

@Southern

I used the example of the US because it shows that even with equal institutions of liberty there is a disparity.

I fully accept this. Liberty doesn’t eliminate “disparity,” but wealth tends to vary directly with the degree of liberty. Also, “disparity” is not the same thing as “poverty,” nor are the lowest earners necessarily “poor” (which becomes especially obvious when comparing poverty class U.S.A. to the general living standards of very poor African countries).

Agreed.

@MMMark

@Southern

You initially countered by saying that you doubt there was a disparity between races in the US. Which by all measures there is.

Here is what I said:

@MMMark

You imply that, given the same institutional factors, Black populations don’t perform as well, economically, as Asian and white populations. Even if we assume this is true (and I’m not convinced it’s true), this does not explain why some (Black) African populations are very poor, while others do better.

The bolded part is of what I said was really “what (I) countered” with. I don’t think U.S.A. “poverty” statistics are germane to the Original Poster’s question, which is “Why is Africa Poor?”

If we assume what is true? given the same institutional factors, Black populations don’t perform as well, economically, as Asian and white populations.

What did you doubt? Even if we assume this is true (and I’m not convinced it’s true),

I appologize if I missunderstood your point. Anyway the US poverty statistics, again, were not meant to illistrate why africa is poor. Only that institutional factors do not explain away why Africa is poor.

@MMMark

The questions of why we can see racial disparities on U.S.A. poverty statistics, whether these statistics constitute “all measures” of poverty or economic performance (and according to you, there are "…all sorts of measure that you could use… per capita income, infant mortality, literacy rates, life expectancy, etc.), how accurate these statistics actually are, etc., don’t impinge on the issue of Africa’s inability to keep developmental pace…in my opinion.

Again, they were used to demonstrate how “liberty” does not account for all differences in economic performance. Nothing more.

@MMMark

It just seems to amount to saying “Because they’re black…works just the same in the U.S.A. as in Africa.”
It doesn’t explain anything.

Was attempt to control for African populations and “liberty”. A way of looking at African populations outside of African institutions, which is what you claim is holding back development. We could also look at Haiti or the dominican republic, or the African population in Brazil. But if you make your search too narrow you may never find ALL of the answers.

I think we agree on 90%. Its just that damned pesky 10%.