More specifically, the video (and Loose Change) focus on implying that there was no plane that hit the Pentagon. Both still question the validity of those that hit the WTC: “Why was this piece of wreckage so close? Why was that one so far away? Why were certain pieces mutilated and others unharmed? What are they hiding by not releasing the black box tapes?” I’m sure this is all part of the big coverup, and as soon as Alex Jones and Charlie Sheen figure it out, they’ll let us know. A better question would be: why does any of that matter and how does it in any way prove a government conspiracy?
I don’t think those concerns have got anything to do with pieces of the plane wreckage. It was pieces of the building which were ejected laterally for hundreds of metres with enough force to embed them in neighbouring structures. This occurred during the collapses, and not persuant directly to the force of the impacts. The inferrence is that these large, heavy pieces of debris were ejected during a demolition process facilitated by pre-set explosives. Not many people really know who did it, but cooperation from people high up in city and federal government seems very, very likely. “Government” isn’t all on the same team, you know… If there was a false-flag operation, only those individuals who would have needed to know would have known. Obviously. If you know anything about how government really operates from day-to-day, especially the security apparatus, you would know that the old “someone would have leaked by now” excuse is nonsense. No one knows anything they don’t need to know, and there wouldn’t have been anything on paper to leak. Say something, and you’re either dead or branded as a conspiracy theorist, depending on whether or not people are likely to believe you, and whether or not you’ve already become too high-profile to quietly get rid of.
There is very scant evidence either way concerning the missile that hit the Pentagon - there is a large body of circumstantial evidence which might indicate that it was an object far smaller and more maneuverable than a Boeing 767, but as I said, there is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion there. There should be a proper investigation.
That’s the point. Stop implying that everyone with questions is trying to prove that the Martians or the Vatican or the Reptiles did it… The point is that there hasn’t been anything remotely resembling a proper investigation. It’s a farce. No one knows what happened, but the official story is clearly a white-wash.
I hate to break this to you, but when you have a plausible official version compared with a ridiculous conspiracy theory, most people are likely to believe the former, not because they are just sheep, but because the latter requires a greater suspension of disbelief. The burden of proof is on the conspiracy theorist to make a case, not those presenting the official version, which is backed up by physical evidence and live video.
The conspiracy theorist begins with a conclusion and shapes the available evidence to fit his hypothesis. This is the exact opposite of scientific investigation. So far, Truthers have yet to present a chain of events based on fact, a specific motive for the conspirators, or even who exactly those conspirators are. The “official version”, questionable as it might seem in places, is on the side of logic and demonstrable evidence. Your version (whatever exactly that version is) is not.
So please, give me a reason why I am supposed to accept your propaganda and doublethink over theirs.
There hasn’t been an investigation. The 9/11 Commission and the NIST report are jokes. The standards that would apply to any ordinary crime scene in New York were NOT even remotely applied to the WTC site after 9/11. The evidence had all been removed by the time law-enforcement investigators pitched up on the scene. I understand that NYPD and FBI couldn’t treat the whole of lower Manhatten exactly like an ordinary crime scene, but be reasonable for God’s sake. The debris was immediately shipped to China for recycling. It’s a travesty.
THERE IS NO CONCLUSION. There hasn’t been an investigation. There is only what is obviously not the correct conclusion. The concerns you raise about beginning with an official line and then trying to prove it are being projected onto people who question the official conspiracy story. It is not a simple thing to imagine that something as big as 9/11 is a ball of lies, and that the people who actually did it are more than likely living amongst you as adored and venerated paragons of your society, but there it is.
Hmmm… interesting. Why am I supposed to care about building 7 again? Why is this the thesis of the conspiracy theorists? Talk to Alex Jones and get back to me on that. As for the pattern of the collapse, has anyone considered that just about every highrise building is built to do just that upon a massive structural failure? Has any Truther even bothered to look a building codes or study architecture?
OCT? Cute. Is that like when you say “ZOG”? Thanks for the lesson in conspiracist lingo.
Hmmm… interesting. I am not seeing an argument in your post. I am seeing an emotional response, consisting mostly of ad hominems.
Why are you supposed to care that your government has lied to you, about maybe the most important crime and mass-murder in US history, certainly our lifetimes? Maybe you could think about it and get back to me on that.
No, they haven’t. What are you even suggesting? That every tall building ever built was designed to just automatically fall in precisely that fashion if set on fire? That is, in the fashion of a controlled demolition? Why would we even bother having controlled demolitions at all then, if we only needed to set the building on fire and let it burn for while to achieve the same effect? Those things take up a lot of time and money after all. What you’re suggesting is that the incredibly precise science involved in destroying a 47-story building in the most efficient manner possible is in fact not so precise at all but in fact inevitable. That to me is absurd.
Aaagh! Will you please explain just what they lied about? Who was involved? What did they do and how did they do it? Again, you start with your theory and adjust the facts accordingly. If you have an alternate theory, great. But you have to explain just what the hell it is. Phrases like, “They lied to us,” and “Inside job,” tell people nothing. You can start by first explaining what the significance of Building 7 is, and how its destruction-- whether fast, slow, or otherwise-- proves anything.
Again, against my better judgment, I watched your silly Truther video. It showed a single, small building fall over in what looked like a developing country, never saying what caused it. Why? Because that’s all they could find. The WTC collapse resembled none of the numerous controlled demolitions. They looked like they burned from the top and then fell in on themselves.
Believe whatever you want, but the burden of proof is on you and Charlie Sheen to tell the “real” story, if indeed another version is true. You have lots of theories, but no evidence and no actual motive – and, so far as I can tell, no suspects, other than George W. and those pesky Illuminati, Freemason, space aliens.
Motive?
Have you ever heard of Larry Silverstein? What about asbestos?
Look, speculating about motives is all fine and good and well, but you need to establish exactly what kind of crime happened before you can start looking for the perp, and speculating about why they did it. Where the real modus operandi differs drastically from the alleged one, it’s likely that the motive differs violently too, and quite frankly you will have no idea until you know who committed the crime and how.
You think the inferred motive for the official perpetrators makes sense? They hate you for your freedom? Pull the other one, slave. Or do you think they wanted America to invade and pillage the Middle-East forevermore?
“A better question would be: why does any of that matter and how does it in any way prove a government conspiracy?”
First you have to understand the video. In no way, shape or form is it saying no planes hit the towers. They say the obvious opposite actually. It seems as though you are getting confused with another video.
LOL. What is really left to plunder? Nothing. The U.S. gets a very small market share of the oil, at least compared to the hundreds of billions we put into acquiring it. We can produce all the oil we could ever want domestically and then some. If this was a straight plundering operation, it’s been a colossal failure, even by NWO standards. Even for a conspiracy theorist, you are thinking too narrowly.
What is significant is that all that oil is now valued in U.S. dollars. Google Rev. Lindsey Williams (an actual credible conspiracy theorist) for a slew of data on the subject. Any product that America might get out of it means nothing. All that matters is that that oil is valued in our worthless paper. The only significant holdouts are now Iran and Libya. There is no rush for a full-scale invasion of either anymore, since the euro is currently in even worse shape than the dollar (if that is possible).
There, now you have some real data. Now run with it!
You don’t understand. Whether through supporting/fighting warfare or welfare basketcases, the truly plundered ones have always been the sheeple, the “us” in the “us vs. them” welfare (class) and warfare (nation, religion) dog and pony show. What’s important to the government+banking elites is that there always exist basketcases as reasons for money to be created out of thin air and lent to them or to whomever is “fighting” them. Hitler, USSR, Tito’s Yugoslavia, Saddam, Gadaffi, Greece, Bush, Jihadis, Obama, The Poor (Medicaid), The Sick (Medicare), and The Hungry (Africa) will be maintained wherever they pop-up and will be created if they don’t. Then “money” will be created out of thin air and lent to them (and to governments funelling it to military-industrial cronies to fight them) without any concern whatsoever whether it would be ever paid back. The interest collected on this “free” money is pure profit (infinite ROE on $0 of own capital invested or at risk) flowing in one direction until it stops (Oh, no!) and the sheeple are asked to bailout “the system” lest ATM’s stop giving out cash tomorrow morning.
The fact that someone always presents you with a sucker at the pocker table doesn’t mean that you’re not the largest one at it still.
You’re on the right track. Get Griffin’s “The Creature From Jekyll Island” (in hardcover, cause you’ll want it for keeps), and read it.
Well, thank you for the encouragement. I’m still unconvinced, however, that the same people who can’t run Amtrak or the USPS (or even the Mustang Ranch-- true story!) would be capable of masterminding anything. Governments and central banks are good at throwing money at problems, not at solving them, or even at creating a problem when they try to. The conspiracist belief that government is all-powerful only encourages the beast, while providing a convenient excuse for their own unwillingness to try to fix the situation.
Another great Ed Griffin source is his Reality of Money seminar, apparently given in the late-80’s, and re-hashed into yet another anti-W YouTube presentation by conspiracy nuts. Oh well, at least I was able to just convert it to MP3 to avoid the propaganda.
Thanks for this.
However, you mean to tell me that you don’t believe that the people who were able to bring about the creation of the Federal Reserve through manipulating Congress and engineer the following 100 years of siphoning the wealth from the poorest among us and redistributing it to the wealthiest class (ie, them), that these people who have the government and the military in their pockets basically kept anyone from noticing what theywe re doing for all that time, that these people wouldn’t be able to say, off an uncooperative president here, or blow up a few buildings there without anybody noticing that either? Because they all buy into the same fundamental illusion? With all due respect that seems like a disconnect to me, that you could recognize the one aspect of the illusion but not another.
There is constant reporting on what they’re doing, from mainstream reporters and from conspiracy nuts of all stripes-- most of it false, since most people only look at it from the perspective of their agenda. That’s why they can get away with what they do.
The Zapruder film was once hailed as undeniable proof of a conspiracy (one that involved everyone but Lee Harvey Oswald). Once it was analyzed by real ballistics experts, and became positive proof that the assassination had gone exactly as the investigators had theorized, not as Oliver Stone did, the same conspiracy buffs started accusations that the ancient camcorder footage-- seen over and over for more than 40 years-- must have been tampered with. The following gives a better account of the story than Jim Garrison:
There’s even an audio book and a documentary out there for the people out there who don’t read (i.e. most of them).
Because some aspects are provable and some aren’t. An honest investigation must be based on facts and evidence, and right now, those do NOT favor the conspiracy theorists. Even people like the John Birch Society do not jump on this conspiracy bandwagon. I like Ed Griffin (a lifelong Bircher, by the way) because he sticks to what he can prove and offers actual evidence to back up his theories. I have yet to meet a Truther who does not subscribe to the “inside job” theory based on anything other than political bias. Again, you have yet to prove that I should accept your propaganda and doublethink over theirs.