Richard A. Grove, worked at World Trade Center 1, and survived the 9/11 attacks. Richard Grove began working for Silverstream Software to develop an internet transaction and trading platform for Marsh & McLennan and AIG. During 9/11, Marsh & McLennan had offices on the 96th floor of WTC 1, North Tower. No one present in the offices at the time survived the attack, the insurance brokerage firm lost 320 employees.
SilverStream provided a specific type of connectivity that was used to link AIG and Marsh & McLennan. Grove became a Global Account Manager for his clients AIG, and Marsh & McLennan, and laised for Silverstream.
Please listen to this whole thing.
This guy explains the insider trading on 9/11 and how people knew it was coming and what they did…it’s a lot, so make sure you are sitting down.
I in all seriousness would share this with everyone you know. THIS needs to be what the “conspiracy theorists” revolve around…
The banks stole gold out of the deposit boxes in the towers. this is crazy and i really wish idiots like alex jones would put this guy on the air. He also discusses the lie of oil being a fossil fuel. Even though Russian geologists think oil is created constantly in the mantle and dig 45 thousand feet deep for it. We in the west only dig 15 thousand feet deep…
Hadn’t heard of that, but the put options was the most damning thing in my view. Read the undisputed facts conceded by Snopes, and then read the explanation that leads them to conclude the claim as “false”:
Wanna know how they explain that? See the link below…
Grove explains all of that. Snopes is worthless. “Look at all of the proof of pre-knowldge. Ope, nope; all false 9/11 board said so.”
9/11 Commission was a sham everyone who thinks critically knows this. It was the top dogs getting in and covering up any relevant information. Banks are totally the ones behind all of this. They loan money into existance their power is limitless.
I’ll be sad if this thread isn’t as popular as “9/11 Truth”
Mark, you really need to calm down. This is not a 9/11 truth forum and while some folks on here harbor reservations about the official explanation of 9/11, a lot of folks just don’t give a damn. What’s the point in obsessing over one government lie when the government is lying 24/7 about everything? Still others on this forum are more minarchist and are probably less likely to hold a thorough-going Rothbardian anti-government stance and may be more willing to give the government the benefit of the doubt. That’s their opinion and I respectfully disagree. But there’s no need for the histrionics.
It reminds me of the Chomskians who keep on referring to the communes in Spain in the 1920s to prove how syndicalism works … yadya .. yadya ..
The Miseans, like the Chomskians, have convinced themselves that Jewish companies are behind it and/or Bush did it all …
I have nothing against scepticism when it comes to government – but the moment libertarians put forward their own theories they too must undergo the evidential criterion and falsifiability tests. But, like all conspiracy theories, it is based on an assortment of random bits-and-bobs arranged in such a way to present an image that is, to some extent, psychologically satisfying.
I’m calm. I’m disappointed in the attention that “no planes” and “BBC knew early” get while this dude actually has legit info that people ignore. It confirms a lot of H.L. Mencken for me and actually discourages me from trying to help the ignorant people out there. Tons of people would care if they only knew…
btw, clayton thanks for saying that i have a psychological disorder. Really cool of you.
To know the truth does not expressively have to be pro Islamism. Most 9/11 truth individuals do not even associate the attacks with a religious organization. I too get tired of 911, tired of hearing about it. I would hope that most people would see the basic physics of the “collapses” and realize that there was more to it than the media portrayed. But it is definitely the type of thing that makes you feel crazy, when everyone else thinks one thing and basic physics says another. I would just ask everyone to look www.ae911truth.org to see actual evidence that proves otherwise to the official story. I do not think that this topic should be visited constantly on these forums because there are other places that are more suited.
The patrons of the Mises forum are more skeptical toward government than the population average in the US but the views they express obviously do not represent LvMI or Mises, so there is no sense in which they are “Misesians”. As I said, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
I don’t think threads can have points. Mark’s point was that there were individuals who benefitted from shorting the airlines and other stocks in the days just prior to 9/11. Mark believes this is important information. I don’t think it’s very important since the only purpose such trades could have to the hypothesized conspirators is disinfo.
Plus, to be honest, I almost didn’t listen to it myself. You follow that link and realize it’s part 3 of a 13 part series of nothing but telephone-quality audio of some guy spouting god knows what about 9/11 conspiracies. And he doesn’t even really say anything until at least half way in. It’s all of that that really turns people off and has them not be interested. Especially when you have no idea who this guy is and there’s plenty of other sources out there. Not many people are interested in sitting around for 10 minutes of what seems to be a 130 monologue…and start from 20 minutes in, no less.
@JJ: The level of disinfo surrounding 9/11 should be a good tip-off to the casual observer that something isn’t right. If the government hasn’t infiltrated the 9/11 truth movement, it would be the first major anti-government social movement since at least the inception of the FBI that they have not infiltrated. The majority of what I hear, read and see regarding 9/11 is nonsense that has been copy/pasted by witless dupes. The root sources, I speculate, are affiliated with DC or Langley.
I have nothing against scepticism - particularly against the physics as to why any building - given its structure - should collapse when hit by a plane travelling at hundreds-miles-per-hour.
But it never ends at scepticism.
The 9/11 truth movement is driven - not by a noble pursuit of truth for truth’s sake - but the underlining notion that Bush, Jews and corporations planned 9/11 - and not al-Qaeda. The implications behind this are unparalleled - since the Wahhabist-fanatical extremist terrorists get a free-pass at killing people in society (if they had their way) while socialists and some libertarian types get to indulge in their favourite past-time of blaming everything on the US government.
Don’t get me wrong. I have plenty to criticise the Bush and Clinton Administrations - but not for the commission (or collusion) of 9/11.
The Mises Forum has lately played host to 9/11 conspiracy threads; and your principle objection rests on my defining the capitulation in this forum and its members by broadly (for the sake of simplicity) placing them under the umbrella of the Mises Community.
Naturally, in this tradition of youtube debates, I mustn’t have a clue what I am talking about !!
I think there are some things you should know about ‘forums’. First, any wanker can post whatever the hell he wants, provided he can get away with it. Fortunately, since the Mises forums value free speech, a voice is given to virtually everyone who registers, provided they don’t violate the very reasonable rules listed. I don’t believe 9/11 threads fall under banned posts.
Random forum users unrelated to the actual Mises Institute can hardly be representative; this is just a public forum, not a blanket validation by the LvMI of every post that is posted.
Also, I’d like to throw my lot in with Clayton. I can’t say one way or the other at this point, but there would in principle be nothing surprising if some version of the million 9/11 alternative stories are true. It’s not like the government is above this sort of activity.
I largely agree with you (particualrly on the point that users should be able to debate anything they desire on internet forums) - but I couldn’t help noticing every-so-often a 9/11 thread in the background.
In any case, I actually think 9/11 is so far-fetched that it is almost impossible for the US government to have planned and executed the mission. When you consider all the people and parties that would be part of this conspiracy it renders the idea rather obsolete? For instance, the military commanders etc …; police and city organisations, government officials, those who apparently “phoned” their relatives from planes and inside the buildings, explosive-demolition teams (and the people who let them in), the air-traffic controllers, the pilots and airlines, the FBI and CIA agents around-and-about then, and all their friends and family … this would go into the thousands of people who would have been part of the conspiracy. Don’t get me wrong. I am not one to defend the US government – yet I find this conspiracy so far-fetched and fantastically implausible, that I simply don’t understand how anyone can really think this. Anyway, I don’t want to get into a proper debate here. But just curious what you think.
There have been several things which smell of a shamed-US government trying to cover-up their failures – but that is their failures in confronting terrorism (and the belief that one can live side-by-side with fascism and imperialism) instead of being complicit in the atrocity.
Is it any more implausible that 19 muslims with boxcutters made their way past the US air defense system? FOr over an hour with 4 hijacked airliners?
All of the people you mentioned had to have failed at their jobs for it to happen, so if that is possible, then it makes it possible that a rogue network (not the whole US government) working inside the “military industrial complex” to pull it off as well. I think this is more likely. The main difference is the intelligence of the war games being conducted that day.
