[Split from August low content thread here]
Nice!
I’ve posted this before but I think it’s a good “wedge” to help get a toehold of doubt in the minds of “true believers” in the official 9/11 story:
Clayton -
Not that I want to turn this into a 9/11 thread, but
here’s one of my favorites. It’s got 15.2 million views for a reason…
And this one is one of the better exposés of the extensiveness of the coverup. The sad part is there’s just not a lot of information available for most of these deaths and disappearences.
Those videos are all photoshopped
Whoever did it must have started working on them 9/12 2001, and didn’t stop until the day they were uploaded to youtube. Photoshop is not exactly video compatible.
This is the September Clues disinfo.
Let me give you a simple rundown.
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Means and opportunity are not a problem if Mr. Silverstein was involved. If he was not involved, it would have been basically impossible.
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Everyone says “How could they possibly do it???” but then they sent men to the Moon, not to mention developing nuclear bombs in secret. So you tell me what these wonder-men can’t do if they put their mind to it.
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The planes were used as a “gross cause” of the collapses. Because the events of 9/11 were unprecedented, almost nobody can say with certitude that the planes could not have caused a collapse. After all, when just one, tiny O-ring got too cold it blew up the space shuttle. The collapse theory does have gravity on its side + two huge passenger jets flying at high speed.
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WTC 7 was a gigantic mess. I surmise that the building was supposed to have collapsed immediately after WTC1 or WTC2. Concealed from video by the gigantic dust clouds of one those two buildings, nobody could say for certain that some rumbling in the foundation - in tandem with ‘widespread office fires’ - hadn’t caused the collapse of WTC7. But something went wrong with the demolition which can be seen here. Note the massive gaping hole running the entire height of the building - note that the lines are very straight, suggesting cutting or charges.
They had to come up with a new “scenario” on the fly. They simply decided to forego the rumbling part. “Spontaneous collapse due to fire” was chosen. At that point, the ops guys re-entered the building and began systematically checking/re-wiring the entire building. This must have been extremely hazardous. They were probably entering/leaving the building dressed as firemen.
Silverstein’s comment about “pull it” was neither about the demolition of WTC 7 nor not about it. I think he gave that interview with a gun in his ribs - “You fucked up the demolition, so you are going to give an interview and you will say this specific phrase on television.” This was a CYA move by the higher-ups; if it comes to it, they can throw Silverstein under the bus and blame it all on “the Jews”.
I am puzzled why they didn’t wait a couple more hours for darkness to fall before “pulling it”. I think they were nervous about a need to re-enter the building in case anything else went wrong and this would have been far harder to do under cover of full darkness. At least during the day they had some light coming in from the windows.
When you go back and look at the WTC 1 & 2 collapse videos, you will notice that both corners of the building give way at precisely the same moment; in some angles, you can see three corners giving way together! How is that possible? If the building collapsed as a result of localized failures, these should have occurred in concatenation. First this girder gave out, then these columns, that put additional stress on this support member, which collapsed and pulled over those beams, and so on. This can, of course, happen extremely fast but no matter how fast, it cannot happen with simultaneity. In all three collapses, this is the hallmark - simultaneous failure across the breadth of the building.
NIST’s refutation of any demolition scenario is based on sound. This retutation fails on two counts. First, there were explosions being heard (1:10). Second, if an exotic weapon had been used - such as shaped nano-thermite charges - the sound power from the explosions may have been vastly smaller than standard explosive materials such as TNT.
Clayton -
For those of us that arent ‘truthers’. Can someone show me the light? Is there a breakdown step by step of actual FACTS surrounding what yall believe happened? I cant stand these billions of youtube videos that go around spewing ‘facts’ or just throw out random names and expects the audience to follow what the hell they are talking about.
like how do we know the director of the CIA was having breakfast with the very guy who wired 100k to the alleged lead high jacker of 9/11? any proof? why are they wiring 100k to someone who is about to be a dead man anyways?
who are these random people that have ‘mysteriously’ died a number of YEARS after 9/11, but we think they ‘knew’ something?
why do yall claim wtc 7 was brought down?
what did this madam dc lady know? did she know something that she hadnt told anyone yet? if not then why did she need to be killed?
have any of yall read the 9/11 commission? im thinking its about time for me to read it.
I’m not one of those people who think yall are crazy for believing in the conspiracy. The number of people who has to be involved in this attack ( if it is a conspiracy) has to be in the hundreds. Most of them have to be American right? Anyone of you truthers disagree with that?
Why would so many people be willing to go along with this?
I’m not a “truther” because I have no expectation to ever get the truth out of the criminals behind 9/11, in or out of government.
Have you never heard the term “cover up”. It’s when someone purposely erases, distorts, mars or fabricates the facts or otherwise frustrates the fact-finding process. Like melting down entire buildings in order to turn them into a battleship, for example.
If you want me to “prove it” to you, forget about it. I couldn’t give a hoot whether you “convert” or “change your mind” or “see the truth.” If you don’t care to know the truth for its own sake, there’s nothing I’m going to say that’s going to change that. And if you are someone who accepts government statistics and news accounts at face value, well, that’s a matter that you’ll have to deal with on your own.
Neither can I. But none of the videos posted are in that category. The 5-minute video posted above makes a “conservative” case for 9/11… in other words, every claim in that video is easily verified. The point of compressing it all down to five minutes is to illustrate the utter absurdity of the broad sweep of the government’s story.
Did you watch the “This is an Orange” video? Can you explain to me what makes the WTC 7 a collapse due solely to fire other than the government’s say-so?
No, I’ll never read it. I only have so many years in my life, not going to devote a single hour to that piece of nonsense. Any of the true facts in the report can be independently verified, making the report redundant, and those that cannot be independently verified (e.g. the secret testimony of Bush, Cheney, etc.) should be held in question. The report itself is useless.
Not at all. Only the men holding the keys have to be American. The rest could have been done by any intelligence agency with access to exotic demolitions capabilities.
Why are so many people willing to go along with drug-running, gun-running, money-laundering, gang murder or bootlegging (back in the day), etc.? Answer that question and you will have the answer to your question.
Clayton -
Here’s one I hadn’t ever seen before. Get a load of the expert input…right there, on the scene. I love it.
It seemed plausible to me at the time. I didn’t fully understand the implications of the relative strength-of-materials. Think if the airplane had been made of plastic resin or fiberglass. Would it have penetrated?
I shouldn’t have said September Clues is disinfo. It’s a very daring hypothesis but - if pushed too far - it can become disinfo. I think the September Clues argument has one very persuasive point - whoever pulled off 9/11 would not have wanted any solid evidence lying around and video tape is among the most persuasive form of evidence there is. I suspect some of the same players that were involved with JFK were involved with this and they got their fingers burnt pretty badly with the footage from that incident.
And to give you an idea of how tightly controlled the 9/11 footage actually is, go search “WTC 7 South Face”. I have been able to turn up precisely two shots of the south face of WTC 7 prior to its collapse. New York was a beeshive of cameras on that day, yet a person can find only two shots of the south face??
Clayton -
clayton - I’m not attacking you. I’m asking because i truly want to know. I’m open to believing it is an inside job I just need just a single FACT to go off of. I know you are calling it a cover up, but they cant cover up everything. Something HAS to be there to prove that its a conspiracy. I’ve seen a lot of the videos and a lot of them are convincing, but nothing that is proven (to me).
Why would you not want to try and convert everyone? If what you say is true then imagine the flow of antigovernment ideas that would come out of it. Converting a single person could make all the difference.
no offense, but anyone can do a 5 minute video of what you claim happened and it would look more insane then that. Then again thats the nature of conspiracies.
this is an orange - ya ive seen that video and it is pretty convincing. I think something about wtc7 could prove to me that it was an inside job, i just havent seen it yet. And i was asking why would they want to bring down that building in the first place? just for insurance money?
what do you think the secret testimony of bush/cheney revealed? You think they would of told the truth?
I’m more than willing to the leg work and read if you can point me in the right direction. Is there a web page that is pretty close to what you think is accurate with everything that happened?
I don’t understand what you’re looking for. Doesn’t the testimony of your own eyeballs count as evidence/fact? Unless the WTC7 collapse videos are fabricated (which I doubt), the evidence is right there in the video. The building clear did not collapse from fire, not because it is “impossible” for fire to collapse a steel building - as many falsely claim - but because it defies reason that a steel building that was not hit by an airplane, had no core damage (by NIST’s own admission), whose foundations were sound (NIST), etc. to collapse in the manner that WTC7 did - sudden, symmetrical collapse simultaneously across the entire breadth of the building.
If WTC7 had collapsed in this way the day before, with no airplanes/WTC1/WTC2, you wouldn’t suspect demolition? You’d be insane not to. If it’s not a cover-up, why did NIST classify its simulation of the building’s collapse? Also, if you read the NIST report (which I have), you will see that its description of their core column collapse scenario is a beautiful description of the exact order and sequence in which the columns would have collapsed in a controlled-demolition… minus any mention of explosives. In other words, even the NIST cover-up report says that the columns suddenly failed in an order and timing perfectly consistent with a controlled demolition. They rule out demolition primarily on the basis of sound.
As for a reading list, I recommend starting here. WTC7 is one of the two biggest gaping holes in the official conspiracy theory. The other is the incredible lack of response to the attacks from the air defense network, which he lays out in detail. There are many other holes, of course, but those are the two “slap-in-the-face obvious” holes. His most famous book is New Pearl Harbor but if you want to get the latest info, start with 9/11 Ten Years Later.
Clayton -
Because this strategy is based on a reversal of cause-and-effect. Belief in the government’s 9/11 bullshit is the effect of widespread credulity toward government, generally. Look at a 2007 Peter Schiff laugh-down video on YouTube. “Ben Bernanke said there’s no housing bubble, you say there is a bubble in the housing market… what a tard! HAHAHAHA! Like the government would purposely lie about something like that!” People watch this stuff on TV and eat it up, laughing along with the hosts at the idiotic contrarians who are too stupid to “get it” that government doesn’t lie and the news media always reports true and relevant facts.
Attacking the symptom will not heal the disease. People - Americans, especially - need to learn that government lies. It doesn’t just lie once in a while on a few things for the sake of national security. It lies constantly about almost everything and almost never for reasons that have anything to do with public safety or defense. That’s why it’s so easy to poke holes in any government story or statistic. Just pick any random official declaration made by the government, think for a few minutes about how the program actually serves the government’s interests and about how they are spinning it to make it sound like it serves our interests instead. The wool will fall from your eyes and you will see.
But this requires a root change in attitude. Those who are undergoing a shift in attitude will seek out the relevant facts and evidence required to see the error of their former attitudes. Those who are entrenched in their ways will only dig in their heels and, to the extent they look into the issues at all, simply consult “debunking” arguments to assuage any nagging doubts that may have been raised in their minds.
Clayton -
thanks.
Ya to be honest i dont recall ever knowing about WTC7 until a little over a year ago, but i do agree it very unrealistic for the building to collapse from fire AND then collapse that way.
I’ve heard somewhere that there are really only a few companies in the world that do demolitions for buildings (maybe i heard for large buildings). The best company is a firm in Vegas for obvious reason, but they do almost all major demolitions in the US. Has anyone interviewed those guys and asked their opinions? (the video i saw about this company was completely unrelated to 9/11. i think it was a travel channel show on vegas)
This interview is pretty interesting.
Clayton -
Give them fear, and they will trust the guys with the big guns (military).
It happened in germany. It happens now.
Also, don’t forget about these guys.
Clayton -
The 9-11 Story in 5 Minutes
Wow.
A lot of nuttery in this thread.. You point to the WTC7 videos so watch the whole video! You can see BEFORE the building collapses its central penthouse area does, as a result of hours of intense fires having weakened the building. As the penthouse collapses, it creates a low pressure vacuum that causes the rest of the building to follow up evenly without falling appart, creating the illusion of a controlled demolition.
link! There are a lot of videos out there, which one do you think is the whole video?
Clayton said: "Unless the WTC7 collapse videos are fabricated (which I doubt), the evidence is right there in the video. "
Or, if my embed didn’t work, direct link here.
Regards, onebornfree.